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Stuck F-20N - What Next?

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Tony

10-20-2003 09:47:36

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I know I am asking a much asked question, but I am trying to get my F-20 unstuck. I soaked it in penetrating oil, etc. for over a year. I have not been able to get it to budge, either using the crank or by rocking the wheels (one wheel is hard to move as it is though). A couple of the cylinders look pretty bad, both from above and below. Everything else looks good though.

Yesterday, I dropped the pan and (pardon my lack of correct terms) took off the 2 nuts holding the rods to the crank shaft and also removed the lower part of the rod (the part held on on the bottom of the crank by the nuts). I was hoping I could work on each piston individually in order to minimize damage to the crank by using force.

But I do not see a way to remove the rods without removing the crank, which i am sure is quite a project. Any hints on what to do next or how to apply pressure/force safely in its current state?

You can view the project at the link provided (not updated for recent work).

Thanks!

F-20N Project

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Bill Smith

10-21-2003 19:44:45

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Re: Stuck F-20N - What Next? in reply to Tony, 10-20-2003 09:47:36

For soaking a stuck engine, I like to use automatic transmission fluid (ATF). Everybody you talk to will tell you something different such as PB Blaster, deisel fuel, or a mixture of this and that. Your tractor has removeable cylinder walls (sleeves), that can be pushed upwards and out the top of block. If the sleeves just have surface rust, they could probably be hoaned and so forth and used again. If the sleeves are rust pitted, they are like damaged to bad to be used again. I had a single piston on an F-20 froze so bad that I had to resort to the wood block and alot of pounding to get it out. Never use metal to metal contact (always use a peice of wood to beat on) and never use an excessive force that will cause the object part you are beating on to break when you resort to the pounding method. In my case, I broke the sleeve which was rust pitted beyond use anyways (the piston cocked side ways on that last pound and broke a chunk out of the bottom of sleeve). If more than one cylinder appears to need excessive force you might wish to remove any pistons that are not froze, then remove all but one that is badly froze and more than likely you will want to use downward force to start with to free it. If you chose to replace sleeves and pistons, remove sleeve and piston together by removing out the top of block, ounce it is out you could always crack the sleeve off the piston to get the rod if you don't want the piston either.

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The Red Baron

10-20-2003 18:35:46

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Re: Stuck F-20N - What Next? in reply to Tony, 10-20-2003 09:47:36

I had a look at those picture after sending that other reply. They look a little worse than I expected. You may in fact have to replace some of them but don't just simply remove them all without checking. I too have an F-20 I am ready to begin work on just as soon as I can get a proper place to store my F-12.

After reading your post I had to wince at the thought of anyone bashing apart a manifold with a hammer because the nuts were stuck. Those nuts were almost certainly bronze and are meant to combat rust. I'm sure you could have gotten them off if you had used the proper approach. I your penchant for using a hammer is going to cause you much grief whether or not the piece to be removed is shot or not. Next time take a PROPANE torch and heat that nut for 3-4 minutes...the expansion will work wonders. If it is unusually stubborn spray the bolt but not the nut with something like WD-40 to cool and shrink it. Next work that nut with a good half inch socket a little out and then tighten it back a little. If you don't twist it back and it is full of rust you risk torquing the stud in half and then you really have problems. Constantly working it out a little and then back in not quite as much as you loosened it. Keep spraying it with liquid wrench to wash away the loose rust that will begin accumulating ahead of the loosening nut. You surely don't want to get it jammed in the threads. I have found very few nuts that I was not able to remove this way.

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Tony

10-21-2003 07:36:27

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Re: Re: Stuck F-20N - What Next? in reply to The Red Baron, 10-20-2003 18:35:46

Thanks for all the helful advice. Luckily, I have learned the value of restraint. But, the manifold was in 50 pieces before I attacked it, so I did no damage to it (still need to get the nuts off of course).

On the lower halves of the rods, luckily I did keep everything organized (even the shims (?)) so that they can go on exactly the same. I am a big believer in ziploc bags, sharpies, and digital pictures.

Thanks again,

I hope to report back soon.

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The Red Baron

10-20-2003 18:21:09

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Re: Stuck F-20N - What Next? in reply to Tony, 10-20-2003 09:47:36

I wouldn't be pulling any sleeves at this point. Not by a long shot. Nor should you begin by pounding anything down. It's not going to get you any force that you haven't already been applying. Get a peice of wood like about a 2x2 by 12-18 inches long or so. Preferrably oak or something hard. A piece of pine or some soft wood may wind up spintering. Lie underneath the tractor and place the end of the wood on the bottom of one of the piston rods you now have revealed since you took off the the botton half of the rod as you should have. Take a good sized ball been hammer or a small single jack and gently begin pounding upward, pounding upward until you begin to see some space between the piston rod and the crank shaft. Now the following is key here. DO NOT just continue pounding until the piston comes up out of the sleeve! Tap up a little and then go to the top and with a shaved 4x4 like the other poster suggested (I actually used a round piece of 2x material I custom cut just slightly smaller in diatmeter in order to protect the piston and more equally distribute the force, and that is what I would recommend) anyway, use that to tap down a little. Alternate between pounding up and pounding down, never too terribly much at any one time. I would be more than a little astonished if you did not get it to go. In my case it was simply carbon build up that seemed to have the consistency of roofing tar in my F-12 that caused me to have to do what you are facing now. Once I had it free by working the piston back and forth it was obvious that the cylinder walls were not an issue. Thankfully I had not compounded my troubles by removing them. In my case after working the cylinder back and forth and washing the area with liquid wrench the cylinder eventually moved quite smoothly. I never did pound the cylinder high enough for the rings to spring free and I eventually just pounded it down and rebolted the piston rod caps. It runs fine, though in retrospect I probably should have pounded those cylinders out all the way and given those rings a good cleaning but as it was I was already far deeper into an engine than I had ever been and had more than enough anxiety on my mind. Give it a try and I'm sure you'll get it, then come on back to the board. You certainly don't want to be fixing things that are not otherwise broken. By the way, there is a torque value for replacing those bolts and caps to the piston rods. I don't have it in front of me but I could find it if you don't have a manual and really need it. Oh, and another thing.....it is probably too late but you should try to keep those piston rod caps with the piston rods that they came off of and preferably faced the same way that they came off. Another thing is make SURE you place a good coating of heavy oil on the caps, crank shaft and piston rod before reassembly.

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F-Dean

10-20-2003 13:25:57

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Re: Stuck F-20N - What Next? in reply to Tony, 10-20-2003 09:47:36

Tony, Shave the corners off a short piece of 4x4 lumber so that it will fit into the cyclinder. Place it on top of a piston and "Tap" the top of this block with a sledge. I used a 16-pounder! Do this to each piston and you may be able to get them to move-they probably are not all stuck equally. If this doesn't work, I would pull the sleeves one at a time and work on each piston, one at a time. (Pull the sleeve that appeats to be stuck the worst, first) and go back to step 1 with the block an sledge on the others) You may have to replace the sleeves anyway. PS You cannot remove the crank until you get the pistons loose because it goes out the rear of the engine.

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Tony

10-20-2003 13:46:38

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Re: Re: Stuck F-20N - What Next? in reply to F-Dean, 10-20-2003 13:25:57

Should I put the lower part of the rods back on first?

What will pulling the sleeves involve?

Sorry for the basic questions, but this is my first try at this.

Thanks

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