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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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revenge of the buzz

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farmallsc

11-08-2003 14:55:32




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ok im no mechanic and im out of my league, but here we go again its a 51 super C and has set for 17years, there is a starter but its disconnected becuase it never worked, upon discovering the battery was garbage i removed it and have a charger on the RUN setting goin straight to the cables, there is a distributor, it buzzes when i have the charger on run and i turn the key, the lights will work and a small red light on the dash will come on then this sound almost have if gears where ground sounds and after 10seconds maybeit stops lights go off, the sound comes before i can even turn the engine over,

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farmallsc

11-09-2003 12:49:47




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 Re: revenge of the buzz in reply to farmallsc, 11-08-2003 14:55:32  
yes i am handcranking it and the red light is where the fus housing usedto be the key is where the ignition switch button used to be, the charger is 12volt, when i say lights i do refer to headlights (ididnt conside they where enough to stop the power to the engine) i dont neccasarily want to start it yet i just want to get a spark, i do know the electric ignition is aftermarket, the starter does not work and is disconnected

when i say cranking noise like gears grinding im try to use it as an analogy
sorry it didnt make sense when i just read it
oh and the buzzing is not from the charger

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Buzzman72

11-11-2003 09:05:22




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 Re: Re: revenge of the buzz in reply to farmallsc, 11-09-2003 12:49:47  
So I'm guessing the tractor has been converted to 12V...Offhand, not having seen or heard firsthand what it's doing, I'd guess that the aftermarket electronic (?) ignition is probably faulty. Another question is...have you checked for continuity from the key switch to...anywhere? First check to see that you've got current to the distributor (but I'm assuming you do, since you seem to say it's buzzing) when the key is in the "run" position. Second, make sure the engine cranks over by hand. Third, get a usable battery and put in the tractor--even if it's only temporarily robbed out of another car or truck.

THEN, if the distributor still buzzes, try to find either a known good ignition unit or a known good distributor. Trying to check for spark, when you're not sure the distributor (or ignition conversion unit) is good, is kinda getting the cart before the horse. Have you checked the cap and rotor to make sure that electricity going in will ever get a spark out? Grand-dad always told me to check the simple stuff first, and then move on to the more complicated stuff.

Maybe this will give you more info to narrow down the problem...but with a 12v conversion, a red light whose source of power is unknown (alternator light for a 10SI? Oil pressure light? Who knows?), and a wiring job for a key switch that's of unknown quality, it sounds like you've opened up a real can of worms here...I don't envy you one little bit.

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Buzzman72

11-09-2003 07:42:01




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 Re: revenge of the buzz in reply to farmallsc, 11-08-2003 14:55:32  
First off...I've worked on a lot of Farmalls of that vintage at the old garage that dad and grand-dad ran, and I don't EVER recall seeing a "red light" on the "dash" of a Super C...so if there IS one there, it's NOT factory...and neither is a KEY switch on a Super C.

Next...have you tried to crank the tractor over with the hand crank? If it won't crank by hand, I've got a LOT of ideas about where the "buzz" is coming from.

And what's this about the sound of gears grinding? Are you trying to use the starter, and maybe either the flywheel ring gear of the starter drive gear is causing a grinding noise?

There's a LOT of information here that's not making sense...but the replies you have so far make plenty of sense. What it sounds like to me is that you've removed the battery, you've hooked the battery charger (12V?) up to the battery cables, and you're trying to engage the starter...is that correct? And what's the source of the buzzing? Sounds like you're trying to say it's coming from inside the distributor, which I don't think is very likely...either the generator voltage regulator or the starter solenoid sound like more likely sources for the buzz. But if this Super C has a key switch and some sort of "red light" on the "dash," then it sounds like you're getting into the middle of something that's ALREADY been screwed up...just my opinion.

And THIS "buzz" doesn't believe in revenge.

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Gary_N_WV

11-08-2003 20:20:38




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 Re: revenge of the buzz in reply to farmallsc, 11-08-2003 14:55:32  
Farmallsc, I have read the last 2 or 3 posts on this, and I still haven't figured out if you are saying that the buzzing sound is coming from the charger or somewhere on the tractor.

If it's coming from the charger, then you have something that is taking too much current and your charger won't furnish it.
Most chargers have a small circuit breaker built inside them that will break the circuit if you over load the charger.

You say the starter is disconnected.(Are you trying to crank start it by hand?) If that is the case, your charger should furnish enough current for the coil,but you also said the lights work.....Are you talking about headlights?
If you are talking about headlights, you need them turned off.

The other guys are correct, you need to put a battery in it, but if you are only furnishing juice for the coil, then your charger will handle that, assuming that there isn't something wrong with your charger.

If the buzzing is coming from your tractor and not the charger, the only thing I could think of that might buzz is the contact points in the generator voltage regulator.
If the sound is coming from the regulator, you probably need to get inside and clean the contact points in it because the vibrating(buzzing) will burn them..... and then get a battery and put on your tractor.
Another thing I'll point out here is that ....assuming you get it started by using the charger connected to the battery cables....and also assuming that the generator charges, when the genearator starts to charge, it is going to try to push current back into your charger.

If you are just trying to see if you can get the engine to start until you get a battery, here is what I would do.
Remove the wire from the coil that goes back to the ignition switch, clip your charger negative clip to the terminal on the coil where you took the wire off and the positive charger lead to something on the engine where it will make contact.Start your engine with the crank...then when you are ready to shut the engine off, just unclip the negative lead from the coil terminal.

And by all means, make sure your tractor is out of gear etc.

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Wayne Swenson

11-08-2003 19:38:40




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 Re: revenge of the buzz in reply to farmallsc, 11-08-2003 14:55:32  
From a mechanics instructor to a new student:
if the engine has a battery ignition, put a good battery in it and then try to start it.
As bigdog said, the charger makes pulsating voltage and that is not what a coil needs to do its job.
Clean all cable ends and reassemble with a di-electric grease to retard corrosion in the future. NAPA or similar stores have this grease.



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Bigdog

11-08-2003 18:36:53




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 Re: revenge of the buzz in reply to farmallsc, 11-08-2003 14:55:32  
You removed the battery and are trying to start & run it with the charger only. The reason it's buzzing is that the charger puts out a pulsating DC voltage and you have no battery in the circuit to provide a load for the charger. Put a battery in the tractor!



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Bob in SE Nebraska

11-08-2003 15:54:22




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 Re: revenge of the buzz in reply to farmallsc, 11-08-2003 14:55:32  
This is going to sound kind of crazy but if you make it buzz when the tractor is in darkness you may be able to see electrical arching. The problem may be a corroded connection or a spot where something is shorting to the tractor. Checking it in the dark may expose the problem.

I have no idea if this will help but it won't hurt anything or cost any money!

Bob



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