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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super H Lift All Questions (Loader Installation)

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Scott

11-24-2003 19:50:53




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I have a Stage II Super H that I am considering putting a loader on. I am wondering how to plumb in the loader to the lift all unit. I have reviewed the service manual, but it is not clear which of the four pressure ports I should use to run to the control valve of the loader. Also, the reservoir on the lift all is very small (7 qts) and I do not think that this will be enough capacity for the loader, so can I run a hose from the loader reservoir to the back of the lift all unit to supply extra capacity?? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, if anyone has pictures of a Super H with a Farmhand or Dual loader mounted on it, I would like to see how they have the hydraulics set up.

Thanks,

Scott

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Dr.EVIL

11-25-2003 08:38:03




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 Re: Super H Lift All Questions (Loader Installatio in reply to Scott, 11-24-2003 19:50:53  
I have the exact same set-up, except the loader is a late 50's vintage FORD for a 800 series row-crop tractor like an 861 modified to fit My Stage II SH. First You need a 2-way valve like the stock IH remote control valve (The other lever that doen't go to the Lift-all), if You don't have the remote valve, (I didn't) any valve for open center 2-way cylinders will work. (I used a Cross Converta-Valve) There's a 1" NPT plug on the back side of the Lift-all res. that the oil from the valve returns to the res. thru, and I just plumbed the valve to recieve oil from the top right outlet. Your Lift-all control rod should be pulled back and the little metal lever by the bottom of the control lever locks the Lift-all into operation. Then Your remote valve controls the operation of Your loader. If You try to use a loader with hydraulic bucket You'll probably run out of oil capacity in the Lift-all. I have two 2-1/2" x 30" 2-way lift cylinders and I'm REAL close to max'ed out. Anyhow, You'll want a 2-spool valve instead of a single spool valve to run the bucket, even if You have the IH OEM remote valve. Hyd. bucket would be nice for some things but I'd rather have the live capability the PTO pump can't give on a Super H. The added speed & lift capacity would be nice though. Other alternative is to Sell Your Super H to Me and but a 300/350 with LPTO. ;-)

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Scott

11-25-2003 10:39:59




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 Re: Re: Super H Lift All Questions (Loader Install in reply to Dr.EVIL, 11-25-2003 08:38:03  
By "running out of capacity", do you mean volume of hydraulic oil? If so, can an auxillary reservior be plumbed into the system?

Or by stating 'running out of capacity" are you refering to the capabilites of the hydraulic pump itself??

Thanks for the input



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Allan

11-25-2003 04:09:15




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 Re: Super H Lift All Questions (Loader Installatio in reply to Scott, 11-24-2003 19:50:53  
Hi Scott,

Bear with me 'cause I'm an old guy and I think like an old guy. :>)

Either way you go, you are going to need a set of controls for two functions minimum. You will need a control for the lift and also a control for the tilt.

Now, that H of yours is a grand old tractor, but it only has one set of hydraulics out.

So, if you want to use one of these newer loaders, which rely on the tractor’s hydraulic system, you are going to have to build yourself this set of controls anyway. I.E. You are going to need a “middle man” to match the newer loader to the older tractor.

Why not just slap a 20gpm pump on that PTO and build your controls/tank on the loader independent from the tractor? The older loaders used this method of self-containment and they worked great.

If on the other hand, you buy an older loader, all this will already be there and in 10 minutes time, you can be mounted and ready to go. Those old PTO pumps really do work quite well.

Just my opinion,

Allan

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Ross

11-25-2003 06:13:52




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 Re: Re: Super H Lift All Questions (Loader Install in reply to Allan, 11-25-2003 04:09:15  
Allan, I agree that it a pto pump would work fine on the back. But I thought a stage II super H had live hydraulics but no Live PTO. If that assumption is correct, I'd rather run the loader off the factory hydraulics with an auxillary resevoir as needed. I wouldn't be surprised though if the loader wasn't faster with a pto pump, just not as convient in my opinion.
Ross



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Ross

11-25-2003 06:08:43




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 Re: Re: Super H Lift All Questions (Loader Install in reply to Allan, 11-25-2003 04:09:15  
Allan, I agree that it a pto pump would work fine on the back. But I thought a stage II super H had live hydraulics but no Live PTO. If that assumption is correct, I'd rather run the loader off the factory hydraulics with an auxillary resevoir as needed. I wouldn't be surprised though if the loader wasn't faster with a pto pump, just not as convient in my opinion.
Ross



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Scott

11-25-2003 08:28:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Super H Lift All Questions (Loader Ins in reply to Ross , 11-25-2003 06:08:43  
Ross
Yes, my Super H has live hydraulics and I would prefer to run the loader from the live hydraulics. You indicated the auxillary reservior, any idea how to plumb that into the lift all system??

Scott



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Ross

11-25-2003 20:01:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H Lift All Questions (Loader in reply to Scott, 11-25-2003 08:28:55  
Scott, I'm going to go from the top of my head, So take this advide for what it's worth. I believe for you to add a aux resevoir to a liftall you'd want it to go from the resevoir to the liftall resevoir/belly pump out to the valve. If it were me I'd probably put a vent in the aux resevoir and feed the aux resevoir in to the lift all resevoir through the drain of the lift all. I'd then run a spool with three valves if it were me one two for the loaders and a remote while your at it. How fast this would be I don't know, also as the others said if you use double acting cylinders fluid capacity isn't as large of concern as the fluid is always in the cylinder. You might also post this question over on the implement alley and tractor talk sections as you might get some more all around hydraulic experts to weigh in. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
Ross

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Allan

11-25-2003 06:38:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Super H Lift All Questions (Loader Ins in reply to Ross , 11-25-2003 06:08:43  
Hi Ross,

Boy, you are probably be right about this one; I've never even laid eyes on a SH.

I had a F-10 on my other H and I just got so used to moving that gearshift in and out of gear that I didn't even notice if the PTO was live or not...I always thought the loader on the H and Ms was kinda fun to operate. Just a habit thing, I guess.

I miss that old F-10's all-in-one spool tho; whoever dreamed that one up had his ducks all in a row. :>)

Allan

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Bill in Ohio

11-24-2003 20:15:18




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 Re: Super H Lift All Questions (Loader Installatio in reply to Scott, 11-24-2003 19:50:53  
The lift all has 3ports. 2 on the left and 1 on the right. All Ports are pressure out gravity flow in. 1 of the left ports I believe is the delay port. Most loaders I have seen use the right port to plumb to the aux valve you will need to supply fluid to the loader. Don't worry about the volume if you are using double acting cylinders as the additional fluid is stored on the exhausting side of the cylinder.

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