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Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pump?

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Slappy

11-26-2003 04:44:02

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I have a Super A that I recently bought from the second owner. When he bought the tractor, the original owner told him it had been loosing power. Turned out to have 3 burnt exhaust valves. Owner #2 had the local IH dealer rebuild the tractor - head reworked with new valves, new rings, new rod and main bearings. The second owner couldn't get the tractor to run, that's when I bought it. A tune-up, carb rebuild, timing and valve lash adjustment later and it starts and runs great. Lots of power, no smoke.

Here's my problem: the oil pressure is low - running between 20 and 45 depending on engine speed. Now I noticed in the box of "goodies" that came with the tractor, a new oil pump gasket still in the package. This suggests to me that the 2nd owner had low oil pressure before the rebuild as well, and intended to rebuild the pump but didn't get around to it when he couldn't start it up. I guess it's possible that the dealer put in the wrong sized bearings or the crank is worn, but I wouldn't expect that from a professional shop. What do you think? Any other potential problems I should be looking at? Is an oil pump rebuild in order? If so what should I be looking for?

Thanks in advance for the advice!

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PA Steve

11-28-2003 15:10:36

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Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pump? in reply to Slappy, 11-26-2003 04:44:02

If your oil pressure never drops below 20 psi, I seriously doubt that you'll ever have a problem.

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Jim E

11-27-2003 04:39:36

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Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pump? in reply to Slappy, 11-26-2003 04:44:02

Gasket kit may have come with several gaskets, they are used as shims for the end gear clearence. Have over hauled many H, M, C, ect. and left gasket out, decreases end clearence and inproves oil pressure. Also check plate for flateness, diecast ones will warp. Check shaft at top end, have seen these worn and oil getting by there.

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Jim E

11-27-2003 04:36:30

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Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pump? in reply to Slappy, 11-26-2003 04:44:02

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Kirk

11-26-2003 14:46:19

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Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pump? in reply to Slappy, 11-26-2003 04:44:02

You may want to check the pressure relief valve. My 'A' had low pressure and when I pulled the pump apart, the end of the relief valve was really rough causing it to not seat properly. Buffed it up and pressure went to normal.

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Bob M

11-26-2003 06:28:41

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Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pump? in reply to Slappy, 11-26-2003 04:44:02

The advice offered below is good. However if your SA shows 20 lbs warmed up and idling I wouldn't be too concerned. I've seen (and operated) several Super series tractors that show < 5 psi at hot idle and max out at only 20 - 25 psi. They have accumulated many hundreds of hours and continue to run without problems.

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scotty

11-26-2003 07:23:39

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Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pump? in reply to Bob M, 11-26-2003 06:28:41

Hi Bob, Your definitely right about that low pressure. During the summer months while I was sickle mowing with my 42 A the needle on gage was just above the red, granted I was mowing at just above an idle but never encountered any problems and thats while going up and down those hills in Vt.

scotty

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scotty

11-26-2003 05:35:17

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Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pump? in reply to Slappy, 11-26-2003 04:44:02

Slappy, When I pulled the pan on my 49 Super A this past summer the oil pump housing was all cracked and broken, its only pot metal and I guess at sometime water got into the pan and cracked that housing. You might check that after yopu drop your pan. It sounds as if you have some oil pressure, these motors will run for years on a samll amount of pressure. While you have your pan off may as well check your bearings. Let me know how you make out.

scotty

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novice

11-26-2003 05:53:37

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Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pump? in reply to scotty, 11-26-2003 05:35:17

Scotty: I'd drop the pan and see if it has an oil pump gasket installed. If not, install your new one & see if the problem's solved. If theres one in there, then pump rebuild might be in order. May also want to Plasti-Gauge under rod cap bearing to eliminate loose clearance issue while pan is off if the gasket was found in place.

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Buster

11-26-2003 06:46:43

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Re: Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil Pum in reply to novice, 11-26-2003 05:53:37

I just dropped the pan on my Farmall 100 so please tell me where this oil pump gasket is located. I didn't see one on mine. It just goes up an meshes with the cam gear.

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Stan(VA).

11-26-2003 07:22:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - Oil in reply to Buster, 11-26-2003 06:46:43

Wayne & Buster,
A common issue with the oil pump is the bottom plate on the pump will warp and the gasket will blow out on the edges near the pump gears. Remove the plate, mill it flat (or just touch up on a belt sander if not to bad) and install with a new gasket. Only semi-tricky thing is to hold against the pressure relief valve and spring as you reinstall the plate.

Another thing related to oil pressure problems is the bearing caps. Three of the last motors I've worked on had bearing caps swapped. Two had main caps swapped (hard to tell without measuring because they're not marked) which resulted in crank being too loose on one bearing and too tight on another (unless run for awhile in which will end up loose on both). We are talking obvious loose here, both motors were M/SuperM's that had an audible clank if you grabbed a loose fan belt and pulled on it as the crank shaft moved slightly up and down, or gently lift on the flywheel with a long screw driver checking for play. The third (a C/Super C?) had two of the rod caps swapped. This was easier to spot because the rods are stamped with matching numbers (I think on the cam side), but more damaging as it spun one bearing and was trying to spin the other. It also had metal grinding off the sides of the swapped rods. Remember that each of the main and rod journals are machined as a matched pair and must stay together. Each of these engines ran and maintained various degrees of oil pressure when cold, all dropped fairly low warm.

From my experiences, these are the areas I check first. Good luck,
Stan(VA).

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Buster

11-26-2003 08:00:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super A - in reply to Stan(VA)., 11-26-2003 07:22:47

So Stan you are saying this oil pump gasket is internal of the pump and not a mounting gasket etc.? My pump looked good.

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Stan(VA).

11-26-2003 08:22:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure in Super in reply to Buster, 11-26-2003 08:00:10

Between the bottom plate and the pump housing. Look carefully at the edges and see if there is any small pieces of gasket material sticking out. There usually is.
Stan(VA).

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Buster

11-26-2003 08:55:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure in Su in reply to Stan(VA)., 11-26-2003 08:22:10

Thanks Stan!

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Bob M

11-26-2003 09:59:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure i in reply to Buster, 11-26-2003 08:55:22

If the pump is like the Super H/M pumps, the gasket between the pump body and bottom cover is literally only about the thickness of a sheet of paper. I've seen several times where the gasket has blown out on the side of the pump opposite the pickup tube.

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Slowpoke

11-27-2003 00:48:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Low Oil Pressu in reply to Bob M, 11-26-2003 09:59:14

I've never worked on a Super A pump but am just wondering if one could tap another hole or two in the body with matching holes in the bottom plate?
That may keep the gasket from escaping.
Or by doubling the bottom plate with a home made part or an OEM plate, using longer screws? Might keep the thing from warping.

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