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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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5 millionth tractor

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Russtred

12-11-2003 19:10:39




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I just realized this summer that the 5 millionth IH (1066) has had the rear wheels changed. I saw it in Ft. Benton, MT. It now has 6 hole cast wheels like came out on the 86 series, 2+2, etc. However, I have seen pictures of it in Ken Updike's book and it had the 12 hole cast wheels like a 66 series would have rolled of the assembly line with. Could there be more than one????? ?
Just food for thought.

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parts-man

12-11-2003 19:38:11




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 Re: 5 millionth tractor in reply to Russtred, 12-11-2003 19:10:39  
I believe that IH put out all of the 1066's of that year with "5 millionth" decals on them.



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Hugh MacKay

12-12-2003 19:48:06




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 Re: Re: 5 millionth tractor in reply to parts-man, 12-11-2003 19:38:11  
parts man: I'm kind of as skeptical about this 5 millionth tractor as you are. If you consider the millionth tractor happened as an M 1n late 40s or early 50s. I looked at the total production numbers for 1957 an average sort of year. In 1957 from Cub-Cub loboy, 130, 230, 350, 450 and 650 there were only 79524 units built. This includes all Farmall and International models built in the US. I skimmed over the 69 models and those figures are even lower. To get to 5 million tractors by 197? they must have counted every crawler, backhoe, cub cadet, lawn mower, etc. ever built. I question if IH ever reached 5 million commercial farm tractors.

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CNKS

12-13-2003 09:21:50




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 Re: Re: Re: 5 millionth tractor in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-12-2003 19:48:06  
I don't know what they counted, but both you and parts man should purchase a copy of Ken Updike's book "International Harvester Tractor's 1955-1985. Details are given on pp 75-79. there was only one, built during the week of Jan 6, 1974, SN 35153, actually presented on Feb 1, 1974. Ultimately bought by a group of Montana dealers for $40,086.86, who put it in the Montana State Ag Museum in Conrad, Montana, where it was at the time of printing of the book. I believe Guy Fay will confirm this -- I consider both Guy and Ken to be authorities on the subject of IH tractors, as they are people who have spent many hours, days and months researching the subject, unlike the rest of us who just rely on our fading memories.

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Hugh MacKay

12-13-2003 13:48:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 millionth tractor in reply to CNKS, 12-13-2003 09:21:50  
CNKS: I believe someone has posted saying the one millionth tractor a Farmall M was built in 1947. Now a quick glance at the history of IH, and I really don't have much difficulty with that figure, just considering tractors used in commercial agriculture. I do however have a great deal of difficulty with 5 million by 1974. At this point and time, I do not intend to buy any book, written by anyone. I allready have a substancial collection of farm equipment books (about old iron) that have a few too many mistakes for me to spend my money on more.

If I look at serial number figures for 1957 in YT's serial number page the numbers are Cub lo-boy-1,653, Cub-6,158, 130-7,243, 230-6,012. F350-13,171, F450-20,137, 350U-13,086, W450-1,093, and 650-10,971 for a total of 79,524. If you do the same thing for 1968; Cub lo-boy-278, Cub-2,976, 140-2,554, 544-4,737, 656-6,727, 756-5,677, 856-10,812, 1256-5,032 and 4156-8,718 for a total of 57,511

I realize these figures are just North American production and that at the same time production was occuring in Great Britain, Germany and Austrailia. I do know a bit about agri business and production around the world. I have followed that one a lot more closely over the years than machinery production figures. So if we believe the 5 millionth IH tractor by 1974, that is 4 million IH tractors in 27 years, I cant see it. 2.7 to 3 million tractors used in commercial agricultural production built by IH is all I can see.

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CNKS

12-13-2003 14:32:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 millionth tractor in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-13-2003 13:48:52  
The M was the 1,000,000 FARMALL, and does not include the other tractors that IH built. I imagine that the 5,000,000th number includes industrial and track-type tractors, including world-wide production. All books have misinformation in them, but I do trust those written by Guy Fay and Ken Updike. I have studied at least the letter series enough to be able to separate the "wheat from the chaff" so to speak in the other authors books, and have refused to purchase several that had more mistakes than accurate information.

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Chris

12-13-2003 14:55:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 millionth tractor in reply to CNKS, 12-13-2003 14:32:14  
wasnt the 5 mil. tractor a 1066 with white sheet metal and red engine and red cast iron componets..At one time rob russel had a pulling tractor called the workhorse that had been painted and lettered to look lake a 5 mil. edition Case IH also offered a maxium series with the 50 mil edition in the mid 90's and they could be special ordered from Case IH with the decals.



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Hugh MacKay

12-13-2003 18:56:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 millionth tractor in reply to Chris, 12-13-2003 14:55:14  
Chris: Well it just gets more redicilous, there hasn't been 50 million tractors built by all companies world wide. Nor did IH ever build 5 million commercial farm tractors. It's time some of you guys got your heads screwed on straight over hype and the sales that occur from it, be it books, tractors, or ride on lawn mowers.



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Chris

12-13-2003 19:15:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 millionth tract in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-13-2003 18:56:56  
If my memory serves me correctly and im not that old. there was a 1066 that was a special edition 5 mil. tractor and in the mid 90's there was a Case maxium tractor that was offered on a limited basis also. A family friend owns the dealership we buy from and at the time tried to get get my grandfather to order one. Now there are many ways to look at how they are counting.. are they just counting ag. tractors? ag tractors and construction tractors? Are they counting tractors they produced world wide? and then the maxium series 50 mil.? by this time they had been combinned with case for quite a few years.. Count both IH tractors Case IH tractors and case tractors world wide. I think the numbers add up. Look at it as a full picture not just what you see under a microscope.

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Hugh MacKay

12-13-2003 21:41:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 millionth t in reply to Chris, 12-13-2003 19:15:35  
Chris: Catch onto yourself, the two biggest groups of liars in the world are politicians and salesmen. With the salesmen, doesn't matter whether they sell tractors, books, cars or tinker toys. Serial numbers don't lie. Up to 1975 IH probably had 40% of farm equipment business world wide. Deere probably had 40% and the rest had the other 20%. Although hp may have increased steadily since then, numbers have been on a steady decline. There is no way total ag tractor production, all makes, world wide has reached 50 million even in 2003.

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Chris

12-14-2003 08:52:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 milliont in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-13-2003 21:41:05  
Since you appaerntly know the amount of IH And Case IH tractors produced form the beginning untill current. Show me some numbers to prove me wrong. This isnt enron and I dont care for fuzzy math. So inorder to prove myself and others wrong that post here show us some production # for IH Ag. tractors Lawn mowers (just remember cub cadet was part of for IH for along time) Industrial tractors. And then to the 50 mil. tractor that was caseIH maxium .so quote us some case numbers too Just remember their construction line too...One of the most popular construction lines at one time...And Case IH production # add those all up and get back with us... I think you will find you are incorrect.

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Hugh MacKay

12-14-2003 12:35:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 mill in reply to Chris, 12-14-2003 08:52:46  
Chris: You best read my posts in this thread again, as you apparently have not comperhended what I have said. From the beginning I stated if they counted only commercial agricultural tractors, there is no way they reached 5 million by 1974 much less 50 million by 199?. What you are trying to argue could be absolutely right. I said right from the beginning if they counted every dozer, backhoe, loader, cub cadet, ride on lawn mower and farm tractor these figures may be right.

I have no problem thinking the Farmall M in 1947 was indeed the 1 millionth commercial farm tractor built by IH. All I am saying is IH never produced 5 million commercial farm tractors in its history. The world has yet to see it's 50 millionth connercial farm tractor, of all makes combined. It is indeed you who decided to argue with what you wanted to believe I was saying. I can tell you this from dealing with IH in the 60s, 70s and early 80s, agricultural divission, the construction and truck divisions operated as separate companies under the IH umbrella.

Quite possibly we may be closer on this than you may think. CNKS seemed to think Ken Updyke and Guy Fay, who have both researched and written books on this subject are the authority on this subject. They may well be, I have not seen their books. I make note of the fact they also didn't chime in here either. All I want to know is what was counted and what wasn't for those figures. My argument is that it wasn't only ag tractors, yet when it comes to that magic number the 1, 5 and 50 millionth always seem to be ag tractors which is very misleading.

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CNKS

12-13-2003 18:22:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 millionth tractor in reply to Chris, 12-13-2003 14:55:14  
The picture in Ken's book is in black and white, along with a color one (but apparently taken inside at night--colors are not clear) but does look like white sheet metal with a red engine and lower portion of the cab red. It had some parts chromed, rims, muffler, etc. IH did consider allocating one "5,000,000" 1066 to each dealer, but that would have been 3000 tractors. This was downgraded to the point that each dealer instead received a full color poster that included a picture of one of the first tractors made in 1906 along with the 1066.

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