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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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12V Ignition troubles

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Jason

12-26-2003 13:58:38




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I recently converted my new pulling tractor with IHC distributor over to 12volts. I switched the 6volt coil with an Accel 12volt coil for some more spark. My tractor stop running after 10hrs, (ignition) and i think i burnt the points. My question is can i run a stock 12v coil(which i have too) through the points? And also, it says external resistor required, do i need one? I have an H with a Remy distributor which has been converted with only a coil and it runs great. Please Help, Thanks

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Scott

12-26-2003 17:26:15




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 Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Jason, 12-26-2003 13:58:38  
I agree with Chuck's Repair. All cars and trucks as well as 12 volt tractors that came with points had a resitor built into the system somewhere. Mopar had the ceramic ones, GM had a resitor wire and so on. They had a wire from the starter solinoid that bypassed the resitor and put 12 volts to the coil while cranking for faster starting but continuous 12 volt will fry the points and overheat the coil even if it says 12 volt on it.

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Ray

12-26-2003 18:39:33




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 Re: Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Scott, 12-26-2003 17:26:15  
Where does the resistor go if you put one in with a 12 volt coil? On the 12 volt supply to the distributor? Thanks Ray



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Ray

12-26-2003 18:34:31




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 Re: Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Scott, 12-26-2003 17:26:15  
Where does the resistor go if you put one in with a 12 volt coil? On the 12 volt supply to the distributor? Thanks Ray



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Scott

12-27-2003 08:51:45




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 Re: Re: Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Ray, 12-26-2003 18:34:31  
Yes the resistor goes between the ignition switch and the coil. Read Bob below. He sums it up well.



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super mta puller

12-26-2003 16:41:41




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 Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Jason, 12-26-2003 13:58:38  
remove your points and install an electronic ignitor from pertronix as long as your 12 volt coil is not putting out over 3.5 omes you are ok. If it is you need to put a balance resiter
between ciol and distributor, this is what i have done to my 12 volt system, any questions email me



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Terry in MN

12-26-2003 16:26:16




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 Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Jason, 12-26-2003 13:58:38  
Doug in OR is right as rain. You don't need a resistor with a standard 12 volt coil.

Terry



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Doug in OR

12-26-2003 18:30:04




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 Re: Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Terry in MN, 12-26-2003 16:26:16  
Finally.. someone who knows ignition systems. What the others are overlooking is that 12 volt coils have a resistor already built into them. The old MOPAR coils were merely 6 volt coils. This is why they required an external resistor. Any coil marked "use with resistor" is more of the same. A 6 volt coil that is used with an external resistor for a 12 volt system.

Adding another resistor would be the equivelent of running with dirty points. More resistance in the circuit. It's just another thing to weaken your spark.

BWT, all this information is available in the "Research and Info" section to the left on this page. Does anyone read that section? Lots of good info, believe me.

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Walt

12-26-2003 15:34:15




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 Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Jason, 12-26-2003 13:58:38  
Brad and Chuck are right on the money on this one. Probably the best way to go that I have seen is to go with a ford coil and resister setup. They are cheap and easy to get. Almost any boneyard should have something that will work wonderfully. Enjoy, Walt



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Doug in OR

12-26-2003 14:43:22




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 Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Jason, 12-26-2003 13:58:38  
If you use a standard 12 volt coil, you should be able to use stock points without any problems. Do not use a ballast resistor with this configuration. Use a ballast resistor only if you are using a 6 volt coil on a 12 volt system.

Many of these high performance coils draw more current than a standard coil. They simply need to - you won't get a hotter spark any other way. I suspect this is why your points burned out quickly.

If you keep your 12 volt system, your options are these: 1) Use a standard 12 volt coil and no ballast resistor, or a 6 volt coil with a ballast resistor. 2) Try converting to electronic ignition. You should be able to use that high energy coil with solid state ignition.

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Brad L

12-26-2003 14:30:08




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 Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Jason, 12-26-2003 13:58:38  
You could use a ballast resistor from any Chysler product that had points in it.



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Chuck's Repair

12-26-2003 14:18:43




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 Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Jason, 12-26-2003 13:58:38  
Yes you need an external resisror.Without a resistor there is too much current flowing.The condenser does not have the capacity to handle the extra current flow and arcing of the points occurs.The extra current flow also will cause more heat in the coil itself which is oil filled and can burn up a coil in a short amount of time.



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Jason Again

12-26-2003 18:46:43




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 Re: Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Chuck's Repair, 12-26-2003 14:18:43  
My coil that i will use instead of the Accel coil is an el-cheapo coil from the Napa it it says (USE WITH EXTERNAL RESISTOR 12V)so i would have to say i need to use one. However the one on my H says the same coil with the same (USE WITH...) and has no resistor and i have put several hours on it this year, BUT it is a Delco Remy distributor which i think is intended for 12v use.



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Bob

12-26-2003 22:46:58




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 Re: Re: Re: 12V Ignition troubles in reply to Jason Again, 12-26-2003 18:46:43  
If the coil states "Use with external resistor" it definitely needs to have a resistor used with it to reduce current draw through the points to a manageable amperage when used with a 12 volt system. As far as your other tractor, you may have just been lucky, or have not put enough hours on it to burn the points. The make of the actual distributor should not matter. One other possibility is that the person converting it to 12 volts used a length of resistance wire in the harness from the ignition switch to the coil. Some cars and trucks in the late 50's up into the 70's used the length of resistance wire to serve the same function as a separate ballast resistor.

With your NAPA coil, you will need a ballast resistor. There are two types. One type is a fixed resistance of somewhere around 1.5 ohms. This ballast resistor is designed to be used with a start bypass circuit from the starter solenoid "R" terminal to the coil side of the ballast resistor to improve spark voltage available for starting. The other type of ballast resistor has a positive temperature coefficient, so it will have about .60 ohms resistance when cold, as in when you first turn the ignition switch on to crank the tractor, and the resistance will rise to about 1.5 ohms, or so after the tractor has been running for a minute or two. This second type of ballast resistor gives good spark voltage for starting, but, yet, the resistance rises soon after starting to allow good point life. No starting bypass circuit is needed with this second type of ballast resistor.

A knowlegeable parts counterman should be able to find the resistor(s) that are listed as compatable with your particular coil.

I generally use Standard Ignition (brand name) parts, and their catalog lists the proper resistors to use with their universal coils, and I'm sure NAPA would do the same.

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