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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super H versus Super M Width

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Bud

01-14-2004 12:54:30




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Does anyone know ( of course someone does )if the SH is the same width as a SM. What is the width with the rear wheels bowed out but slid all the way in assuming 13.8 tires?
Thanks




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CNKS

01-14-2004 18:41:46




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 Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to Bud, 01-14-2004 12:54:30  
Tread width (center of tread to center of tread) is 68-88 inches for the Super H, and 72-88 inches for the Super M, both with the wheels dished out; each Super M axle housing is 2 inches wider than the ones on the Super H. With 13.6-38 tires, add 13.6 inches to the 68 or 72 inches to get the overall width at the widest part of the tires, 81.6 for the Super H and 85.6 inches for the Super M. Thus the Super H with 13.6 inch tires will fit between the fenders (barely) of the wider car trailers, the Super M won't. Can't speak for the Super M, but the standard rims on the Super H are NOT adjustable on the wheels.

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randy hall

01-14-2004 14:57:17




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 Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to Bud, 01-14-2004 12:54:30  
i suppose you mean with the wheel dish in the wide position. 'm' width to the outside of the tires is about 85" with the wheel hub set in close to the axle housing. a 'h' measures about 78" with the wheels set the same way. to van, on an h or m there is no rim to wheel adjustment unless you have 300 or 400 wheels on your tractor to use the double bevel rims.



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Van

01-14-2004 18:08:28




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 Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to randy hall, 01-14-2004 14:57:17  
I have a SMTA with double ribs on the rims, they are factory.
Van



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randy hall

01-14-2004 19:17:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to Van, 01-14-2004 18:08:28  
double bevel rims were not manufactured until 1955



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Van

01-15-2004 04:35:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to randy hall, 01-14-2004 19:17:01  
I got three farmalls and all are pushing 50 years old and the 54 SMTA is 50. I don't know, I didn't spend every minute with the thier entire existance, someone could have swapped the rims.
Van



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Hugh MacKay

01-14-2004 20:53:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to randy hall, 01-14-2004 19:17:01  
Randy: May be not some places.



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Hugh MacKay

01-14-2004 15:29:00




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 Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to randy hall, 01-14-2004 14:57:17  
Randy: Supers in my area years ago had the same wheel and rims as 300-400 series. Now I don't remember being around a lot of them, so I can't say all. I briefly owned a Super M had the same wheels as my 560 and same rims as my 300. A neighbor had a Super H, same as my 300 for the wheels. I feel quite sure those two came from factory that way.



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randy hall

01-14-2004 15:45:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-14-2004 15:29:00  
can't agree with you on this one hugh. the early 300's and400's came with six spoke wheels and drop center rims, randy



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Hugh MacKay

01-14-2004 17:21:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to randy hall, 01-14-2004 15:45:12  
Randy: Lets just settle down and figure what you are calling what. In your first post said double bevil rims now your saying 6 spoke wheels with drop center rims. Make up your mind what your calling them.

In Eastern Canada H's and M's were sold with what I call the drop center rim, or the old style. Every tractor from Super H, SuperM, Super MTA, 300, 400, 350, 450, 460, 560, 656, 504, 544, 666 and 686 all used what I call the double bead wheel, in that there were 4 position settings between rim and wheel. Some rims were wider than others and of course there was two axle sizes for wheels.

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randy hall

01-14-2004 19:09:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-14-2004 17:21:50  
hugh h and m wheels have six spokes and 300 and 400 wheels have eight spokes.



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Hugh MacKay

01-14-2004 19:50:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Wid in reply to randy hall, 01-14-2004 19:09:23  
Randy: I never did suggest how many spokes any of these tractors or wheels had. Furthermore I don't think it is a cut and dried issue on the fact change came with model change. What I am saying is all Super H, M and MTA tractors I have seen had the same wheel style or configuration as the 300-400 through to 544-656 and on to 686.

Remember also I am looking at this from a Canadian perspective. I can give you numerous examples of IH tractors and equipment using the same model numbers and were equiped much different in Canada from the US counterpart. I bought some parts books and manuals out of Nebraska. These were books I already had Canadian copies of the same. I did this because I saw discussion take place on forums, with participants trying to compare something that was somewhat different. An example, No.8 Little Genius plows. US built were non adjustable frames as to width of cut, while the Canadian built plows were adjustable width, narrow being 10, 11, 12 and 14 inch and wide being 14 or 16. There are 3 other major differences in those plows,yet they are both called No.8 Little Genius.

Another item and I just noticed Charles N on this one. He and I have had discussion on this one before, that being width of 38" tires. We saw wide 38" tires before you people did as they were coming out of Euorpe. We farm a much less firm soil than you people do, thus we were looking for flotation even for the H and M. I do know some US built Farmall tractors were shipped into Canada less wheels and tires, I don't know which models they were. We may have been getting wheels and rims out of Doncaster, who knows.

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Allen

01-14-2004 18:36:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-14-2004 17:21:50  
Boy this rim thing is confusing. I am restoring a 52 m one rear tire size 10x 38 and the other one is a 13.6 x38. the 10x38 tire is on a rim that I describe as steps up to the hub. The 13.6x38 tire is on a rim that slopes up to the hub from the bead.What is proper tire, rim sizes by today standards. I always like my side walls straight.



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Hugh MacKay

01-14-2004 19:01:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Wid in reply to Allen, 01-14-2004 18:36:54  
Allen: Are you saying you have two different wheel and rim configurations? They did come new with matched wheels. On this change over in rims to the new type, I don't think it is very cut and dried as to exactly when it happened. Of course the change from letter series to super letter series happened very close to date of your tractor. A lot of changes just did not occur in conjunction with model change. Probably most of them occured when stock was depleted.

On your 13.6 tire, most of those tires will have stamped right in rubber on the side wall 13.6 on 12" rim, 12.4 on 11" rim or 11.2 on 10" rim, etc. That statment on side wall of tire gives the proper rim size for that tire, and indeed what will give you the very best traction all other things being equal.

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CNKS

01-14-2004 18:47:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M Wid in reply to Allen, 01-14-2004 18:36:54  
There were different size rims, but the "standard tire" for your M was 11-38, exactly the same as todays 12.4-38. 13.6-38 (the old 12-38) tires will fit and look just fine on your 11 inch rims.



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Allen

01-14-2004 19:00:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Super M in reply to CNKS, 01-14-2004 18:47:48  
did farmall use both rim styles as I described



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CNKS

01-15-2004 19:53:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super H versus Sup in reply to Allen, 01-14-2004 19:00:42  
Not on the M -- Without seeing it I don't think the second rim as you describe it will bolt up to the standard wheel. That is not to say that some other wheel for a different 38 inch rim won't work, as long as it fits the axle. Whatever will fit the axle will work.



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Jim

01-14-2004 14:17:54




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 Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to Bud, 01-14-2004 12:54:30  
My M with the wheels dished in and within about 3 inches of the end of the axle will fit within the fenders on a 81 inch wide flat bed. I also hauled an H with the wheels dished out and almost all the way toward the axle casting and it fit easily within the 81 inch width. Thats all I know. hope it helps.



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Van

01-14-2004 13:07:27




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 Re: Super H versus Super M Width in reply to Bud, 01-14-2004 12:54:30  
It also depends if the wheel is on the outer or inner bead of the rim.



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