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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum

Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers

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Ron H.

02-02-2004 05:50:41

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I've heard a lot about the old JD 2 cylinders. They had better hydraulics, live pto, more weight at the rear than a farmall, more comfortable seat, better controls, etc. What is it that farmall guys love about their tractors??? I don't want to come across as harsh-cause that's not what my aim is here. Hundreds of thousands of Farmall M's were produced. Why couldn't these same people who brought the M's gone to the JD dealer and bought a "better" tractor (JD 60)--What attracted them to the farmall M rather than to the JD 60? Thank you for any input here. Again, I am not aiming to attack and preferences here, I am just seeking other opinions. Thanks. --Ron H.

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Tim Malin

02-04-2004 12:16:19

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I have a friend of mine. He's heavy Chevy, I'm die-hard Ford. He's green all the way, I'm red until I'm dead. The one thing, after we bicker and laugh and tease just for fun, we always say, "Ya know, they must of did something right because so many of both brands are still around today." Because one of us likes one over the other does not mean its better or worse. They all have their pluses and minuses in different categories, and as several people have said already, a large part was the local dealer. On my ridge, there is about one green tractor for every 7 red ones; once a dealer was able to sell in an area, he dominated the rest of the business. Today, any product is available anywhere.

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Thank you everyone for th

02-03-2004 07:35:03

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Id like to thank everyone for their thoughts on this subject. The responses really put some light on my decision making for my next tractor. I will admit I like both the Red and Green ones. Both tractors are hard pullers, one better than the other in certain areas and visa versa. One thing I do like about the Farmall concept is the foot clutch for loader work. I need a loader tractor next so my next purchase probably will be a wide front M and I'll make a loader for it. I think both colors go well with one another and to pick sides (colors) would only be limiting ones mind and work capabilities. Thanks again. --Ron H

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Hugh MacKay

02-03-2004 15:20:20

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Thank you everyone for th, 02-03-2004 07:35:03

Brad: If you really like both colors buy an Oliver.

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Dave 2N

02-03-2004 15:02:36

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Thank you everyone for th, 02-03-2004 07:35:03

I have red ones and green ones that live in the same barn along with a couple of gray ones; I've never had to break up any fights yet.

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Hugh MacKay

02-03-2004 04:58:20

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Ron: Back in the era you speak of IH and Deere enjoyed roughly 80% of the market split evenly between them. Sure the Ford 8N had the highest sales of any tractor, but remember 8N was all they had. IH and Deere were each producing 4 times as many tractors as Ford. IH and Deere each had almost complete lines of equipment as well. IH was ahead of Deere on some things and vise versa.

So why did things go as they did? Simple, it was that dealer network, that guy right in your hometown that made the tractor what it was. If you take any 10 year period between 1940 and 1960, IH and Deere each sold in excess of 3/4 million tractors. No one else even came close. Who are we to question the decissions of 1.5 million plus new tractor buyers? I see only roughly 70 responces to this question. The farmers from that era also probably had the highest disposable incomes of anytime during the 20th century, factoring in inflation of course.

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scotc

02-03-2004 00:01:48

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

ever tried to follow the pattern to shift gears on a deere? My grandpa looked a a new deere, tried shifting it, and went and bought a used 756.

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John in NE

02-02-2004 20:49:26

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Service after the Sale!! Both JD and IHC had been in business over 30 yrs. when these tractors came out,so each had a good reputation.A 400 wasn't a whole lot better than a "M" and a "G" wasn't a whole lot better than an "A", BUT, a Regular or a GP were both a whole lot better than a horse.John

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Vern MN

02-02-2004 20:23:35

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

As mentioned earlier a dealer support had to do with what tractors were popular in an area. My dad always said "Red" in front, and green behind. Mainly because he couldn't stand the noise of a JD. He did have the utmost repect of the other implements due to the dealer. The only exception was a Gehl chopper. (Blower and wagons green.)

Later on when the JD dealer quit and the next best dealer with support, the color changed.

The early 50's had two tractors in our neighborhood that were the looked on as the super powers. My dad's M (1947 and my cousin's John Deere G (1949) Those days they both did custom work in threshing and filling silos. My dad always left in the morning with the M and made it home on the a tank of fuel without refilling. My cousin always carried a 15 gallon drum besides to make it thru the day.

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fixerupper

02-02-2004 20:19:34

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Ron, I want to compliment you for your attention-grabbing post. As of right now you have 63 very interesting responses. Fifty years ago Deere and Farmall could have used them as testamonials for advertising. Keep up the good work.

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1206SWMO

02-02-2004 19:18:49

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

An M Farmall should be compared to an A JD,not a 60 JD.We had both on our farm when I was a kid.Dad pulled 3x14's(Case)with our 1949 M and I pulled 2x16's (#44 JD)with our 1947 A JD.He lapped me about every 4 rounds when plowing.The A was .90 over with aluminum pistons and was still no match for the M when plowing or disking.

Our A had the 3 speed-2 speed tranny which I never liked.I drove our neighbors 1951 A JD with the straight 6 speed and I liked it much better.I tried to get Dad to trade for a 1947 G JD but he wouldnt.

Our old A JD held up good but we much preferred the M Farmall for the heavy tillage work.I never was much of a fan of the JD hand clutch.I dont know why but I never enjoyed driving the A JD nor the 1944 B JD that we owned ahead of it.Our 8N Ford would walk all over our B JD with both pulling 2x14's.Both our A & B JDs were dependable but they were the last JD's to ever be used on our farm.The 1947 A JD was traded for a 1962 M-5 MM in 1967.

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Dave - Illinois

02-02-2004 18:34:12

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

A couple of years ago just for the memories I started collecting examples of tractors that we had on the farm when I was a kid about 50 years ago. We had a Farmall F-20 and a Farmall H. We also had a C Model Case.

Our neighbors had Green tractors. One of these days a 2-cylinder tractor is going to follow me home! :-) Part of my memories is the sound of these old machines!

Dave Olson � East-Central Illinois

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Dave 2N

02-03-2004 05:27:39

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Dave - Illinois, 02-02-2004 18:34:12

Dave-
I like your approach as it is similar to mine. I want the tractors that I used and saw during my "formative" years, the later 40's through the 50's. That's my area of interest and why for instance, I like my Ford 2N and the leterr series Farmalls and John Deeres.

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john d

02-02-2004 18:19:22

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Dealer support had a lot to do with tractor choice, across ALL brands. Farmers soon learned which local dealer was going to be there with adequate service, not just good price. That's why some areas of the country were almost "brand-specific."
In the situation you propose, it has to be remembered that the M was out there plowing fields for well over a decade before Deere built the "60" model to which you refer! For many of those years, there wasn't much about the comparable Deere models that was truly superior, just stuff that some folks liked better. Seat type is a matter of personal preference, like paint color. Hand clutch would be first choice for some, last choice for most running a loader or backing wagons.

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bdeerehunter

02-02-2004 18:16:10

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I own several of each color we're talking about. Now that being said,We could take a M Farmall and a G Deere, hook them together and pull 5 of any other brand all day.If I'm wrong, then somebody prove it!

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02-02-2004 17:06:24

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Add anothr reason for JD hand clutch- bad left legs. Grew up with IH, grandfather had JD B- younger brother bought at estate sale. His left leg broken in traffic accident, still bad-hard to use foot clutch, little B very usefull for him. Current family farm has 2 JD Bs, 1 JD 60, 1 IH560d, 1 IH350d, 1IH H. 60 is a loader tractor, 350d general use in field and former baler puller, 560d heavy plow, oldest B and H light use. 60 is a bit hard on ears and vibration tireing for all day use, but a step on left axle for it and latest B lets younger brother get some tractor time in as needed- he is very handy with loader. IH prefered for PTO and Belt (limited) use. RN

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Alan

02-02-2004 16:22:23

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Congradulations!!
I was tipped off about this on the JD page and was expecting a string similar to the ones found on the pulling page with all sort of slamming, whining, bickering, etc. So far, I must say that I was pleasantly surprised to find a rather civil discusion being carried out by adults. I own five different colors and they all have there strenghts and weaknesses.

Alan

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Jonathan Mirgon

02-02-2004 16:21:41

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I think in the fourties and fifties for the money , you could get a lot more bang for your buck if you bought a farmall, And I think that this still holds true today, when comparing a used john deer vs a farmall. My father in law has a john deer 60 and a farmall (h) he is a die hard john deer fan, but will admit that the johnny popper is expensive to fix and unreliable, He says he can alway count on the (h) to run.I have a farmall (a) and an (h) and when running next to his johnny popper my farmalls sound like a sewing machine running. I personnaly could not work with a tractor that sounds like a popcorn popper x 10.

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02-02-2004 16:11:18

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

JohnDeere never made a tractor until the 4010

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CLW

02-02-2004 16:08:04

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Ron H, I grew up on Deeres. (Bs,As and 60s) There was nothing better for this 14 year old kid back then than a new 60 with power steering and an umbrella over my head, water bucket on the floor, and my feet propped up on the light bars. My best friend's dad had a H with a kit in it and a Super H. I would drive them sometimes and we fought over Red and Green like cats and dogs. I would have stapled my lips shut before I would have told him that I really did like them. I am now 61 years old, retired from the phone co. and restored a 630 JD. I would love to someday have a Super M to go with it. Always thought the SM and SMTA were great looking tractors.
CLW

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Midniterambler

02-02-2004 16:03:44

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Interesting to read thru all the posts, so here's my $.02 worth. The JD 2cyl. were good, dependable tractors that were easy for the farmer of the day to keep in operating condition. The letter series {ABGDR} were uncomplicated designs, but the later 20 and 30 series Diesels with the V-4 starting engine were tricky for a novice. They would, however, plow all day at little more than 2/gal per hour. Hydraulics and seat comfort were slightly better on the JD. For loader use, or backing wagons, the Farmalls had it in spades. Straight Hs and Ms were handicaped by the large speed gap between 4th and 5th, fixed in the later 300-450 series. Which is better? I own and use several of each,but it really is a moot point. The full-time farmers of my aquintance work at least 1000-1500 acres, and their wives still need to work in town to help keep the wolf from the door. To cover this amount of acreage on a 720 or 450 would make for a very long season. Perhaps it's best summed up by my old friend and neighbor,a true Farmall fan. He claimed that if the Indians had Farmall Ms, they would have Won the West!

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Farmall Daddy

02-02-2004 16:02:40

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I have read all the posts so far, and a lot of you guys have good points. I am a full out IH guy myself, but there are things that I don't like about IH's. I have an M, 560, WC Allis, and an 88 Oliver. I pull all of them at tractor pulls, and the way I would put them in place for best pulling would be WC {for the 3500 lb class}, the 88 {love that sound of a hard workin 6 cylinder Oliver}, the 560 {10,000lb class, and I love the feeling of raw power in the hardest class}, and then the M, in my opinion. The M is my least favorite because of the steering. Going down the road, it is so wobbly, but that is due to thousands of miles on it probably. I like the 88 the most because it is so quite, and powerful due to the oversize kit. But, for little jobs, I turn towards the WC where new tires are needed. The 560 is the best for power around my house, but I have to pull it to start it until I get a really powerful battery, lol. John Deere's had a few good tractors, but them not having a torque, or for god's sake, somewhat of a smooth running engine. I don't like how they have there tranny's set up with the 1.5 first gear. They would be an excellent tractor for a deadweight though. I will most likely stick to my AC's, IH's, and my Oli's.

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Wes

02-02-2004 15:38:34

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

We will never know why people like one tractor over another. It might be what dad ran or the first tractor they saw. I like JD since it is what my grandpa had. I also like the history of the John Deere company.

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TP from Central PA

02-02-2004 15:37:32

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I have ran alot of M's and one 60 with powersteering. Plus we have a '49 "A"..... ....I'll tell you that the M is far better than either of them. Smooth power, comfortable, and the Hydraulics are far better on the M IMO. I like to run a putt-putt once a year, but anymore than that is really aggrivating. I guess it is all in what you prefer.

About the only thing wrong with the M is its slow gearing..... ..... .

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fixerupper

02-02-2004 15:12:17

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Being the green-blooded creature I am I don't know why I bought the 1086 back in '79' but it has been a very dependable companion for me for the past 25 years and 13000 hours except for the six TA's.

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JD Know it all

02-02-2004 14:44:14

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

The JDs and the IHs were pretty evenly matched but unfortaunately Mcaffrey had to order "Hell for stout or else" and failed to do proper testing on the 460/560 which led to serious final drive problems , which in turn tarnished the farmall name and led to the down fall of the company

In about 1973, IH phased the Farmalls out of production. In 1982 Archie McCardell resigned as C.E.O. of IH, and in 1984 The agriculture side of IH was bought out Tenneco.

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02-02-2004 14:31:15

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Got tipped off to this post over at the John Deere page, thought I'd add my 2 cents. I've got a John Deere G, my brother a 730 diesel. My uncle has a Farmall M and a farmer we do some work for has a 300. When pulling in the field, I'd take the 730 over the 300 any day. Not because of the power (I know its apples and oranges there) but the comfort. Hydralic control is right beside the seat, nice open platform, soft seat. But when its time to back a into a barn or use a loader, I cuss the fast reverse on the Deeres and am wishin for a foot clutch, seems like sometimes I could use a 3rd hand! Love the sound of the 2 cylinders though and love how easy they are to work on. I guess to each his own.

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lee

02-02-2004 13:32:23

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

The JD two cylinder is a classic motor by any stretch but they hung on too long with it and took it to it's limit and beyond in some respects. It started to hurt them in the end and they finally had to bite the bullet and get beyond it. Now JD really did a lot for tractor development and is still alive today so that says something too. JD built a lot of good tractors as did IH. This is just my take. I'm not a farmer but worked for the farmer down the road summers who ran IH tractors, H's, M's mostly and later some bigger ones. Most of his large fields were up on top of a 1/2 mile long very steep hill. Now he'd pound them tractors up that hill full bore and back down again with loaded wagons and those tractors did that all day long 7 days a week year after year. I think a comparable JD might only be about half way up when that M topped the rise and leveled off. That's just my opinion and I can't really back it up cause we never had a Green unit on that hill but those tractors took a beating and seemed to love it. If you rode on the side or back of one of those tractors goin up you knew you'd better hang on for your lovin life cause that farmer wasn't lettin off and you'd be hamburger for sure if you slipped off.

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PeteNY

02-02-2004 13:00:18

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Ron, I don't use tractors much, just fixin', showing, pulling, a little mowing and some plowdays...and I have most colors, and love ALL colors, so my answer here is: what are you doing to or with the tractor? ...changing a clutch? Go Green!...changing a radiator? Go red! ...using a loader? Go red! ...need a little better traction? Go Green! From a practicallity stand point, the A vs M or 60 vs SM...the Deeres did have a rock shaft, and thus the availability of 3pt hitch, and with the introduction of the 50,60,70. of course LPTO became available from the factory(I know M&W had aftermarket LPTO available for IH)...but what I have learned from our plowdays is that the padded square seat with backrest and armrests is wayyyyy y more comfortable for extended periods of time, when looking back frequently! Pete

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little john

02-02-2004 15:01:11

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to PeteNY, 02-02-2004 13:00:18

Yep, let's just enjoy what we have and/or what we like. Main thing is to keep these old tractors around.

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49 Cubber!

02-02-2004 12:42:38

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

REGION! Where I grew up there were more Farmalls simply because we didnt have a JD dealer near by,at leats within a decent driving distance!But why I like them is a different story,I cant stand the sound of a JD,too many of them out there and parts are ridiculously priced!And not ot flame anyone but i have found folks who have JD are little more upity about their tractors!

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scotc

02-03-2004 00:06:16

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to 49 Cubber!, 02-02-2004 12:42:38

not all deere guys are bad. learned a pretty cool trick from one. Wrap some electrical tape around the end of the stack and it makes it look like the tractor smokes.

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Joe Evans

02-02-2004 13:04:48

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to 49 Cubber!, 02-02-2004 12:42:38

I would agree to some extent that it seems there are a few JD owners that are 'uppity' about their JDs. That's OK. They're proud of them. I suppose the JD owners could say the same about a few of us IH guys. Can't we all just get along? Seriously, when analyzed objectively, the two-cylinders JDs aren't 'all that'. They have their good points--no manufacturer had everything nailed down perfectly.

I had the opportunity to run a JD B a couple of years ago doing some fair-goer shuttle work. It had been 25 years since I was in the seat of a JD 2-cylinder. I really don't know what the attraction is to them other than the sound. Which reminds me...the shuttle traveled pretty close to some on-going livestock shows. Before long, the livestock exhibitors were jaw-boning to the fair board about the disturbing noise. There were no complaints that I know of when all three shuttle wagons were pulled by other tractor types, mostly Farmalls.

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Dave 2N

02-02-2004 13:12:53

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Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Joe Evans, 02-02-2004 13:04:48

Oh "Bull!" about the disturbing noise!!! Nearly all fairs, shows, etc. have all kinds of tractors operating, including JD's, and you aren't going to sell the idea of JD noise being bothersome. This is the kind of ridiculous stuff that starts color wars. Who were the folks who complained?? Probably a bunch of rich yuppies whose non-real 4-H kids decided that this wummer was their time to do the animal thing. Complaining about the noise of a JD??? COME ON!!!!

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49 Cubber!

02-02-2004 14:28:16

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Dave 2N, 02-02-2004 13:12:53

I didnt mean to get yall riled up about the racket of a Deere.Sorry! I thought this thread was about expressing my opinion as t owh yI liked Farmalls,not why I dislike Deeres!

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noise?

02-02-2004 14:12:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Dave 2N, 02-02-2004 13:12:53

exhuast noise is ok as long as it dont come from a N ford have a briggs with more power

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Joe Evans

02-02-2004 13:23:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Dave 2N, 02-02-2004 13:12:53

I made it all up.

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Ron

02-02-2004 19:06:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Joe Evans, 02-02-2004 13:23:05

Darn..Here in Delaware, Ohio, I see you Died, Friday... Funeral is at Bennett & Brown Funeral Home...

Sorry to hear of your demise...!!!!

( Joe Evans Was a very good friend of our community)...He will be missed...

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Dave S

02-02-2004 12:13:29

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I grew up running IHC tractors from f-12 through 5088 and don't think you can go wrong with red.
Our neighbors and my brother in law always ran green. I think JD has a good tractor to and wouldn't mind owning and A or B but I do know that IH was a much better tractor on the belt and pto. JD did not have steady power like the 4 cyl IH engine. My brother in law was using his 60 JD to grind feed and was complaining he couldn't keep the belt from jerking and it would finally jump of, so I loaned him my F-20 and he never had any more problems. Didn't get it back for a year and a half though think he kinda liked it

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fixeruppers

02-02-2004 11:46:53

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

When I was a kid the farmers would say the Deeres were less tiring to run because of the sound. I have no way of proving that because I grew up exclusively on the two bangers and didn't drive anything else until I was in my upper teens. From the information I have read, Deere tried to counter the M with the G because the A didn't have the horses the M did, but they never did develop the G as well as they did the other letter series tractors for some unknown reason.Around here years ago a farmer with an M could hold his head up a little higher because he had just a little more power than the guys with the A's did.

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Terry H

02-02-2004 18:23:11

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to fixeruppers, 02-02-2004 11:46:53

Dad always said their JD "A" would plow circles around his cousin's Farmall "M" in the gummy crap they farmed 50+ years ago. The "A" would bog down to where you could almost count the RPM's on the belt pulley but keep on pulling. The Farmall was faster going down the road, headed for home, though. Still makes dad mad at 71 years old!

Terry H

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Don LC

02-03-2004 06:52:52

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Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Terry H, 02-02-2004 18:23:11

That happens when you get old....you get your stories turned around ....no way a JD A can out plow a M Farmall, in the same field...been there and done that.....

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gene b

02-02-2004 11:43:02

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

If you ever worked them both you would see where the M was soo much more user friendly just back up a wagon in the barn and you will see the diff.

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moonlite

02-02-2004 11:23:43

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

If I was buying a tractor for the beautiful sound of the engine running i would buy an old Oliver 77 or 88 Never heard anything so pretty. but sound of the engine is a very poor reason for preference.

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sammy the RED

02-02-2004 10:53:41

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

A Farmall will fill a silo alot better than a JD.

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EDGAR

02-02-2004 10:51:23

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

IH M compared to A JD, from what I gather from old timers, price for A was less than M, money was a big deal to most farmers in Iowa, they are a very frugal group, also during WWII JD was easier to get, I personally was a town guy and when I started at warehouse for local IH dealer in 1960 the JD 2 pop was a very obsolete design & cheapest used tractor on the lot, I was not impressed compared to rest of tractors around, The old timers said that A was priced between H & M.

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muskrat

02-02-2004 10:42:21

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

The first time a seen this old Farmall Super M in a barn rusting away I fell in love with farmall tractors. Thats when I was about five and now I am 19 and owned a farmall cub. I love those tractors and drove a fewer new ones and don't care for them. Never will own a green one.

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Farmallkid

02-02-2004 09:33:30

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I think the way the farmalls look, They look awsome. Don't get me wrong, but if i could get my hands on a jd d i would get it. They sound cool.

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Dick Kline

02-02-2004 09:19:37

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Two things come to mind. First there was no JD equavilent of a SM Diesel. It would have been about a 65 or 650. A 60 or 620 was not enough, 70 or 720 too big (read expensive).

I actually ran a SMD with 3x16 trailer plow in a field with a 620 they were trying to sell us. Said it would do the same work as a SMD. I should have had a horn to get that Johnny Popper out of my way. No competion. The size choice was the JD dealers, not ours.

Second reason was the way they started. You had a whole nother engine on the JD diesels to fuss with. The SMD started on gas and switched to diesel. I would start in any weather a gas tractor would.

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CLW

02-02-2004 15:36:01

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Dick Kline, 02-02-2004 09:19:37

Dick, the 620 had 48.68 PTO HP and max. pull of 6122 lbs. The 70 was 50.4 PTO HP with max pull of 5453 lbs. The 620 should have an easy time with 3X16 plows. Must have been something wrong with the one they sent you.
CLW

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Rich

02-02-2004 09:43:49

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Dick Kline, 02-02-2004 09:19:37

I wonder if there is the same question on the JD forum? I wonder how they'd respond? Just thinking....

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little john

02-02-2004 08:34:09

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Following up on one of Joe Evan's comments, I have heard that the wider spaced power impulses on a two cylinder were harder on equipment such as threshers that were run off the belt. I have no experience in this, but wonder if anyone else has heard that?

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Red is best others good.

02-02-2004 10:34:14

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to little john, 02-02-2004 08:34:09

Last fall I was at a large Blue Grass festival and on the grounds they had a AR pulling an old belt driven saw mill. The sound of the govener opening when load on belt got heavy sounded better to me than any of the musicians.

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big norm

02-02-2004 09:31:56

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to little john, 02-02-2004 08:34:09

personal I CAN NOT MAKE MY MIND UP MY DAD RAN BOTH JD AND IH THATS WHY I HAVE A FLEET OF BOTH KINDS

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Joe Evans

02-02-2004 08:47:28

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to little john, 02-02-2004 08:34:09

Our Club has a Baker test fan that we use to load down tractors. There are a number of the larger JDs in the Club--720s, 820s,etc--that we belt to the fan. The problem is the impulses are so violent, the belt slaps and chirps every time a piston fires under heavy load in those big things. Before you know it, the belt gets a glaze and slippage gets worse. It's a shame--really would like to see the full potential these brutes could attain on the Fan. I really wonder how Nebraska got true MBHP figures from the big JDs as the MBHP test rig at that time was a belt pulley drive. To me, it would be hard for a belt to fully transmit all that HP under those conditions.

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720Deere

02-02-2004 14:17:12

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Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Joe Evans, 02-02-2004 08:47:28

The belt slip caused by power impulses on the larger Deeres is a problem, but shouldn't come into play when testing HP. To test max HP, you don't torque the tractor down that far. It is sort of deceiving as they call it max hp, but it is really the hp produced at the speed implements were meant to run.

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Joe Evans

02-02-2004 08:30:24

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

And another thing. The M is 19% better on fuel economy than the JD 60, and the Super M is 11% better.

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Aces

02-02-2004 08:21:06

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

When dad bought the SM in 1954 John Dear wanted more money for a 60 dad said he would not pay more just for green paint. The JD's beat a lot of IH in the tractor pulls but I'd put our SM up again any 60 in the field. And to overhaul a 60 is not fun like most people say I had to do to many to believ that one.

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Farmall Don

02-02-2004 08:19:34

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I addition to the other comments, JD stuff is too costly.

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Stuart

02-02-2004 08:09:14

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I would agree with the fact that the IH is a better tractor to run but in a tractor pull a 43 hp JD 60 would smoke a 55hp M on a hard track. Even if they were weighted the same. I put my 60 on the dyno and it will hold 60 hp without dying and our 50hp M will not. They have an enormous torque curve and are heaver in the back which makes them better for pulling loads down a hill and the Powers steering on a JD hardly ever gave trouble but you gotta be 3/4 octopus to run one.

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supermpuller4

02-02-2004 09:37:36

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Stuart, 02-02-2004 08:09:14

Stuart I think you are the one smoking something , a SM with firecraters will run 55 to 60 hp, MW crank add 10 more, that will pull with a 720. I have never had any trouble with a JD 60 at a running pull.

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Farm w/Junk

02-02-2004 13:22:49

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Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to supermpuller4, 02-02-2004 09:37:36

Not trying to be smart but the original question was why do guys choose one or the other for collectibilty and original purchases. Sure a JD B can beat a farmall M if you put a different engine in in. Hes comparing stock tractors not hopped up alcohol burners. Just my inputs and I like both kinds.

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Joe Evans

02-02-2004 08:24:29

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Stuart, 02-02-2004 08:09:14

Hmmm...Nebraska Tests.

JD 60 gas max pull pounds 4,319.
Farmall M gas max pull pounds 4,233

Yep! That's really gettin' smoked alright!

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scotc

02-03-2004 12:41:45

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Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Joe Evans, 02-02-2004 08:24:29

I don't know where those numbers are from, but i've pulled a lot more than that with my sm with nothing more than sleeve and piston kit from a 400 or 450 in it.

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Joe Evans

02-02-2004 07:55:27

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

For the most part, you're comparing apples to oranges as the JD 60 was a generation newer than the M, and thus would have more features. Having said that, my dad had a JD 60 with no P/S or live PTO, and it was a handful! As far as overall handling, an M beats it.

The worst feature about the JDs was the belt pulley/clutch arrangement. To position a JD and get it lined up for belt work, the clutch is engaged and the pulley turns--rather unhandy when backing up, aligning, and tensioning the belt all while the pulley is turning! In addition, a JDs power impulses are spaced farther apart as opposed to a 4-cyl, and under a heavy belt load, the impulses will tend to make the belt slap and chirp.

My brother pointed out to me a rather odd thing about the JDs and that was their carb placement which is above the engine. Forget to turn off the fuel, add a leaky float valve to the mix, and you'll have a crankcase/gearbox full of fuel. Think not? My brother pointed this out to a Club member with a JD--he had to admit that on one occasion, this happened to him. The leak was so bad, he had fuel running out the rear axle seals!

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Terry H

02-02-2004 19:03:44

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Joe Evans, 02-02-2004 07:55:27

Joe,

Someone was pulling someones leg. Anyone who's ever been inside a 2 cylinder JD knows it's not possible for fuel to get into the rear end unless there is some MAJOR damage (big hole in crankcase) to the engine, or transmission.

For what it's worth, it is stated in the operators manuals for those old JD's that they should be turned off by shutting off the fuel. To my knowledge, there wasn't even a "kill switch" on the old Deere's with a magneto. The only way I can stop my '50 A is to shut the fuel off at the tank. With the carb properly set, it will idle down to less than 75 RPM's with the throttle all the way down!

Just my .84 (.02+tax) worth,

Terry H

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02-02-2004 06:40:57

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

Two things come to mind....dealer availability, and personal preference. I know growing up there was not a Deere dealer around my area that I knew of, but there was a Farmall dealer or two within a fairly short drive. Personal preference had to play a big role, as most that I know most either love or hate the "poppin johnny". I am one of the latter, and could not imagine working all day listening to one. The 4 cylinder Farmalls were and are one of the best sounding tractors when at work. I cannot think of one factor that would make the Deere a "better" tractor than the M (or H or C, etc).

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riverbend

02-02-2004 06:33:16

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

I have to agree with 42farmallH. The clutch on a 2 cylinder JD is really awkward and getting on them is like climbing a pine tree. My neighbor has a colection JD 2 cylinders and he is good with them. He also leaves them sit all winter and plows show with a pickup. Farmalls start, are reliable, easy to work with, and straight forward to repair. A comparable number series Farmall is a better value than a 50, 60 or 70 series John Deere.

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42FarmallH

02-02-2004 06:15:24

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Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Ron H., 02-02-2004 05:50:41

For starters, the competition for the M was not the 60, it was the G. The 60 was not available until 1952, so for 12 years the Farmall M vs the JD G - which did not have live PTO.

The Farmalls are just plain handier tractors too, ever try backing up an implement with a JD hand clutch? Or how about using a loader with a hand clutch? You would need 3 hands! 1 to steer, 1 to run loader controls, and 1 to use the clutch.

Of course, there are many more reasons such as purchase price, dealer service, etc. that would have influenced individual buyers...

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Dave 2N

02-02-2004 07:26:20

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to 42FarmallH, 02-02-2004 06:15:24

42-

I believe the competition for the M was the JD A and not the G. I don't think Farmall had any competition for the G until they went to the Super series and them it might have been the super M.

Anyway, I have some of both and like them all; good points and bad points for both. I believe dealer availablitiy and brand loyalty played a large part in tractor selection. As far as the hand clutch goes, it's cheap to fix with a minimum of tools but is soooo... unhandy in a loader application.

I have never found that one brand started easier or harder than the other. I have a 48 JD A that sat through our two weeks of cold weather and it still starts "right now!" Same with the JD 70 as is the case with the Super C. My Super H is a "super" starter too. So much of this starting stuff depends on owner maintenance and not on brands or 12 volt systems.

Again, both Farmalls and JD's are great old tractors and I can't understand why people like "dissing" one brand or the other.

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Toot

02-02-2004 10:56:32

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Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Dave 2N, 02-02-2004 07:26:20

A G JD was rated to pull the same plows as a M, if you attended any of the old time plow class pulls, the M, G, U moline, 88 Olivers, DC Case were always classed together. The comparable rating for a Super M was the JD 70. I love both but for different reasons. You can't really knock either because of the success of sales.

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02-02-2004 07:25:25

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Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to 42FarmallH, 02-02-2004 06:15:24

Also, sit on a hard pulling 2cyl Deere all day...kinda makes your ears, (and head, and eyes, and heart, and brain) hurt. That whirr of the IH 4 cyl is so much more pleasant, and it pulls HARDER. I think, (just from personal experience) IH is much more of a straight forward repair. Easier access, etc. Each Brand/series had their own individual problems, but that IH M was just a bulletproof S-O-B....just my humble opinion..good question, though.

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Lon

02-03-2004 12:11:34

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Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to AC, 02-02-2004 07:25:25

Back in the late 60's, early 70's, my brother operated a garage that fixed everything-cars, trucks, and tractors-all brands. I remember him pointing out a plate screwed on the bottom of the rear end of an M and saying that he had put on a lot of plates like that. He said it was from a bearing failing and there wasn't enough clearance between the bull gears and the case, so a ball would punch a hole in the case. It that a common problem?

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Dave 2N

02-02-2004 07:34:14

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Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to AC, 02-02-2004 07:25:25

As far as repairs go:

Clutch replacement, JD wins easily (although I realize that clutch replacement on a Farmall can be done without splitting the tractor.

Radiator replacement: If you ever replaced a radiator on a 2 cyl. JD, you begin to wonder what the engineers drank for breakfast when they came up with this design. Same as muffler replacement on the letter series JD's.

Comfort: got to give it to JD; that square seat beats the Farmall setup any day.

As I said above, I like them all. But just to clarify, I'm 60 years old and grew up on a Farmall M; some days I think it's still attached to my butt! What a warrior that tractor was. Maybe that's why I'm a tad partial to my Super C and Super H. But again, those 2 cyl JD's are great machines and if you think otherwise, you've either never had any experience with them or are choosing to start an argument.

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Jack

02-02-2004 14:15:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Dave 2N, 02-02-2004 07:34:14

Three G's,two 70's,two A's,and four B's(JD's)later and I sold or traded all of them.One Super M,M,AC WD and B Allis and All were traded or sold.I liked each and every one of them in there own way.I like to change up just to see for myself which are apples or oranges.Easiest to get on was the 2N Ford I had.The fastest road gear was the Super M.The hardest to get on was the B Allis.The most uncomfortable was the WD Allis.One of my G's had the most grunt on the track(Aluminum Pistons ect.).For physical size of the machine the WD Allis packed a lot of punch.Now I own a Super 88 Oliver(1955 model)just cause I wanted to try one of those and so far I really like the power,smoothness,easy steering,and especially them neat foot pedals for the brakes.Next one may even be a Moline GVI.I like em all,I have never been paid to be brand loyal and don't think they really care what I like.For the times they were all better than horse drawn equipment and ate less.

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REDS

02-02-2004 08:03:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to Dave 2N, 02-02-2004 07:34:14

I have to say the JD with their hand clutch was not near as nice to operate as the Farmalls. They are also harder to mount. Now....the AC was the hardest riding and most clumbsy thing I have ever been on!! The way the seat sets, your legs are straight out and it is also hard to mount. I have spent many hours on IH, JD, and AC....IH is the most user friendly!

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JD 5020 guy

02-02-2004 10:26:19

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Poppers in reply to REDS, 02-02-2004 08:03:02

I have a 1949 Farmall M and have run my neighbor's 1946 JD A in some parades. I don't see where the M is easier to mount. Both tractors in my opinion are hazardous to mount. The food clutch is not a big advantage around here. I farm in wheat country and there were lots of JD D/R/80/820/830, Case L/LA and IH W9/WD9s. A hand clutch for these tractors that spent their whole time in the field was good enough. The foot clutch is much handier around the buildings and if you have a loader. Thats why we bought the M with a Farmhand haystack loader instead of a JD back in 1950.

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smartguy

02-02-2004 15:53:39

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny Pop in reply to JD 5020 guy, 02-02-2004 10:26:19

well, I don't own a JD, I think they are all right, they probably had better ergonomics back then, I don't own a farmall, although I ve been around them, they wer ok but went a little fast on the road, you could throttle them back though, I own a lot of a brand that was the most popular in the world in the 1950s, and had the biggest marketing area in the world, all I know is that when my neighbor took us down to start his JD with a pony, it took him ten minutes to get it running, I thought to myself, I could be done with my work before he even got started, and that kind of said it for me, now if you like doing long boring tasks , then go for it.

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scotc

02-03-2004 00:14:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmalls Vs the Johnny in reply to smartguy, 02-02-2004 15:53:39

It was years before someone besides IHC had a real road gear in them. Neighbor always complained about our farmalls not having any power on the road but our 756 would still get a load where it was going before his 190xt.

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