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460 Diesel starting problem.

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Daren Traugh

02-08-2004 14:05:21

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WE have a 460 diesel that no matter the temperature is very hard to start. It can be the middle of summer run it, shut it off for 15 minutes and you need to use the glow plugs to start it again. In the winter it's even worse. I work for a farmer that say's that's the way it's been since new, and there all that way. Does anybody know if they ever made any correction's to this over the year's. It has been overhauled new injector's, glowplugs, the work's, except the pump. This tractor work's every day and it would be a big help to get it to start better. Thank You Daren PA.

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Jimmy King

02-08-2004 16:55:55

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Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Daren Traugh, 02-08-2004 14:05:21

Daren I have had a 460 Diesel for about 30 years I start it with one 12 volt battery as the tractor vet, Hugh, and others have said hold the glow plugs until you think your thumb is going to break. I don't know about the others ,but mine floods easly so I leave the throdle at low idle, it has always started on 4 cyl. and progressed to all 6. One other thing the starter needs to be in very good condition, and a good battery or batterys. It should turn over like it dosen't have much compression. A starter can start to drag and you don't realize it. Onced in the summer I had been baling round bales with mine and I went to eat it started after 1 hr. with out glow plugs normally about 15 min.

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JD Humm

02-08-2004 15:59:37

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Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Daren Traugh, 02-08-2004 14:05:21

Hugh and tractor vet are correct. My 504 diesel is in perfect shape and you have to start it the same way, glow plug it until your thumb is good and numb and it should take off.

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Hugh MacKay

02-08-2004 15:48:29

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Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Daren Traugh, 02-08-2004 14:05:21

Daren: Tractor vet is right, if more people would start these tractors as they are designed to start, there would be a whole lot less trouble. Sit down and read the manual and start it as it is supposed to be started, rather than how you think it should start. These were the pioneer of tractors that started directly on diesel. I ran two of these for years and years put a total of 25,000 hours on them. Do as tractor vet tells you, he is the only one that is right.

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Duane NC OH

02-08-2004 15:00:00

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Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Daren Traugh, 02-08-2004 14:05:21

try hooking up the batteries in parallel.
you get twice the cranking amps. these engines need cranking speed to help with the starting.
works well on our 560.

Duane

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Grant

02-08-2004 18:45:35

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Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Duane NC OH, 02-08-2004 15:00:00

Thats interesting. We have a 460 diesel and it runs great. However i'm intrigued to try the batteries parallel. This might be a dumb question, but are there any negative effects you've seen with the parallel batteries over the years?

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brianh

02-09-2004 07:58:13

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Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Grant, 02-08-2004 18:45:35

There is one down side: A battery with a slightly higher voltage will slowly discharge into a lower one when connected in parallel. We had an Isuzu diesel trick here at work that had two parallel 12V batteries, and would slowly run the batteries down over a one-or-two month period if it didn't get started and run periodically. After replacing the batteries more than once and checking repeatedly for a parasitic drain on them, I finally replaced them with 2 6-volt batteries in series. Same approximate amount of stored energy, but they can't discharge into each other. Those batteries have been in there for over four years now and it still starts right up even after sitting for extended periods.

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Hugh MacKay

02-08-2004 19:12:39

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Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Grant, 02-08-2004 18:45:35

Grant: It is a non idea, two 6 volt batteries hooked in series are 12 volts, two 6 volt batteries hooked paralell are 6 volt and two 12 volt batteries hooked paralell are 12 volt. You figure it out, one of the hookups aint going to work, while the other two hookups will each perform the same with the same total cranking amps.

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Brian in MO

02-08-2004 19:50:07

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-08-2004 19:12:39

Hugh I have to respectfully disagree but only with the voltage and cold cranking amps of batteries (the starting of a 560 diesel I agree with). If you hook 2 -12 volt batteries in paralell you will have only 12 volts but you will add the amps of both batteries together thats why diesel pickups have 2 batteries and big trucks have 3 or 4 - 12 volt batteries not because they need 36 or 48 volts but because they need the total cold cranking amps to turn them over and start them. That is why I use 2 group 31 batteries hooked paralell in my 560d maybe not neccesary but it does help when you run the glowplugs for 1-2 minutes before cranking. I do agree if more people would start them the way they were meant to be started there would be less trouble with them. Brian

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Hugh MacKay

02-09-2004 02:33:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Brian in MO, 02-08-2004 19:50:07

Brian: First I fail to see what your disagreement is about. I know big trucks use 3 or 4 batteries hooked paralell for amps. I operated many in my day.

Secondly what I said is two 6 volt batteries hooked in series will give 12 volts. I also said that if two 12 volt batteries are hooked paralell they will give 12 volts. Either one of those examples can be bought with the same cranking amps. You can get just as many cranking amps from two 6 volt batteries as you can from two 12 volt batteries.

I had 4 - 6 cylinder diesel tractors on my farm. My 656, 560 and 1066 were all 2-6 volt in series. My Deere was 2-12 volt paralell. The 1066 actually had the highest cranking amps, of the 4. The other 3 were the same. Those tractors clocked a total of 50,000 hours while I owned them in a cold climate, so I do know a bit about what am talking.

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Brian in MO

02-10-2004 16:27:38

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting proble in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-09-2004 02:33:03

Hugh, after rereading all of this I guess we were both saying the same thing MY apologies. I guess I was reading into this that you were saying 1-12 was as good as 2-6's. I also know from your posts your experience, and did not mean to imply that you did not know what you were talking about. Brian

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Hugh MacKay

02-09-2004 13:09:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting proble in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-09-2004 02:33:03

Redman: Are you responding to what I had to say, on this matter? Hugh

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Redman

02-09-2004 12:43:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting proble in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-09-2004 02:33:03

not all trucks run on series,if they do i have yet to see one that has more than a 24 volt system.4 batterys in a 24 volt set-up at 12 volts per battery means they need the cca to spin the engine over.i understood what he said,if you reread your post you will too.if you have 2 12 volts hooked together paralell you add the cca of both batteries together,if you hook 2 6 volts in series the cca remains the same but the volt output doubles.

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Hugh MacKay again

02-09-2004 17:59:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting pr in reply to Redman, 02-09-2004 12:43:13

Redman: First let me say I never at any time suggested diesel truck batteries were hooked in series giving more than 12 volts.

Now if you are refering to cold cranking amps, I NEVER suggested hooking two 6 volt batteries in series would DOUBLE the cca. I did suggest it was possible have just as many cca from two 6 volt in series as two 12 volt paralell. You guys are the ones that better read again.

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Hugh MacKay

02-09-2004 13:23:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting pr in reply to Redman, 02-09-2004 12:43:13

Redman: I get the feeling this is catching this afternoon. I intended on posting a responce to you a few minutes ago. I wound up responding to myself. I somehow had the feeling you were not responding to me either. Just wanted to clear this up as some of this is not making sence to me anyhow. Hugh

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Redman

02-09-2004 17:02:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 460 Diesel startin in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-09-2004 13:23:05

the post was for both guys as a third party to keep things cool.you both were right,but you did have a mistake in one of your posts.if you read the one you posted again you will see,just tryingg to help not start anything.

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the tractor vet

02-08-2004 14:43:04

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Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Daren Traugh, 02-08-2004 14:05:21

That is the nature of the beast as all the 239-282-301's even if it is 100 degrees outside ya got to glow plug them 15 to 30 seconds in the summer if the engine is in good shape and up to a couple min in the winter . In winter it helps to have a block heater and KEEP IT PLUGED IN.

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02-08-2004 14:21:28

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Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to Daren Traugh, 02-08-2004 14:05:21

If it won't start in summer, shortly after running, the injector pump head is worn or the timing is off. These engines are hard to start, all glow plugs must be working. If it runs good then it most likely is the injector pump.

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steveormary

02-08-2004 16:49:59

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Re: Re: 460 Diesel starting problem. in reply to RB, 02-08-2004 14:21:28

I would agree with the tractor vet. Put an engine block heater on it and keep it plugged in for winter. You wont need a big one. 500-750 watt should work.

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