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Cold weather starting

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little john

02-15-2004 09:30:15

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What's the coldest temperature you ever had to get a tractor going? My H will start right up at ten degrees or so, but I haven't used it below that as I just brought it up to Wisconsin from NC. I'm sure lots of you have worked in colder temps.

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Roger WI

02-16-2004 20:16:20

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Re: Cold weather starting in reply to little john, 02-15-2004 09:30:15

In the winter in South Dakota my dad did some crazy things to get the old H started to feed the cattle. One thing he did was dip a corn cob in gasoline and light it. Then he would hold it under the carburator to heat it up. He would also drain the oil and bring it in the house overnight. The most novel way of starting an engine in the cold was a story my father-in-law told about when he was young and courting women. He said they would start the old Model T by getting several of the guys to go out with him and they would pee on the carburator. He said you had to wait for the car to run for a while to burn off the smell before bringing out your date from the party. Roger

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Phil B275

02-17-2004 09:49:30

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Re: Re: Cold weather starting in reply to Roger WI, 02-16-2004 20:16:20

My B275 starts fine in cold weather...as long as I am patient. Takes about 6 or 7 tries. Glow plugs for 40 seconds, then start. Engine catches and dies...Repeat until engine actually runs. I found that a big help is putting the biggest guage battery cables that you can find (I think mine are 1 or 4, can't remember.) I also replaced the cable from solenoid to starter with a heavy guage cable...seems to have helped.

Phil in Ontario
(-22C today)

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The Red Barron

02-15-2004 17:21:14

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Re: Cold weather starting in reply to little john, 02-15-2004 09:30:15

A friend from Alberta once mentioned that he had a White tractor that he was using to move logs in -40 degree weather. I don't know how easily it started or whether he used a block heater or not but he did mention that while dragging a log he drove accross a small rut. When the tractor wheel bounced off the bottom of the rut the rear axle broke. He claimed that the temperature had essentially crystalized the metal and made it quite brittle. It seemed like a reasonable theory to me. He said that was the last time he used it in weather that was that cold as changing the axle in the field was a colossal chore.

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Hugh MacKay

02-15-2004 20:56:22

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Re: Re: Cold weather starting in reply to The Red Barron, 02-15-2004 17:21:14

Baron: No question steel does have a point where it breaks very easily in the extreem cold. For the most part I lived in average winter temps of 0 to -20F. It was rare we saw these -30F or lower temps. When you did you always hoped your logging crew wouldn't bother showing up for work. To start with loggers with chain saws are not productive in those cold temps, plus you know you are going to break items you wouldn't at 0 to -20F. The problem was when they did show up for work, you worked. If loggers stay home they are there for the day. If they show up for work and leave a lot of them will go to the pub and stay for days. It's not an easy game.

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Cliff Neubauer

02-15-2004 14:32:38

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Re: Cold weather starting in reply to little john, 02-15-2004 09:30:15

Anytime it gets below about 40 degrees we try to plug a tractor in if we know we are going to need to use it. Most of our tractors will start below that without plugging them in but if you know you will be using it having them plugged in is alot better for the engine. I try to avoid using either as much as possible but sometimes you have to use it so I try to be careful when I do use it.

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Hugh MacKay

02-15-2004 21:37:57

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Re: Re: Cold weather starting in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 02-15-2004 14:32:38

Cliff: While I have to agree with you whole heartedly, there are or rather used to be situations where diesels had to start in very cold weather and without the use of electricity. Today we have propane block heaters. Big trucks use them all the time for when a guy is spending night in a sleeper and not wanting to run the diesel. The propane block heater will keep him warm over night much like his hot water furnace at home. The diesel starts next morning just like a summer start. In -40F temperatures they are running those block heaters all the time they are running as well to keep the diesel up to good operating temperature.

That was not the case even 20 years ago. Forestry equipment was often miles from any source of heat, and while we really didn't care if it would start at -40F. Anywhere above -25F it did have to go, contracts had to be filled. We tried quick couplers on pickup heater hoses coupled to the diesel for about 10 minutes. The cold coolant coming from the diesel was very hard on the warm pickup engine. Many of the guys that tried that found themselves with larger bills on pickup engine repairs than the risk of using ether. Some guys tried building fires under the diesel, some tried makeshift oil fired and propane block heating devices. Many of those same guys also burned a few machines. I used to carry a cast iron fry pan and charcoal for emergencies. You made damn sure you had no oil leaks anywhere near you engine, and you had two guys standing by with fire extinguishers and a steel hook to pull the fry pan out with in a hurry if needed.

Bob speaks of this as bragging, nothing to do with bragging, rather the COLD hard facts of life when you operate up here.

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Bob

02-15-2004 16:58:48

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Re: Re: Cold weather starting in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 02-15-2004 14:32:38

Cliff,

I admire your intelligent reply. That is what I was thinking. The real thing to brag about here would be who is smart enough to be set up with an engine heater, or other method of taking a little of the chill off when it is so bitter could.

I see no sense in bragging that we have started a cold tractor with near frozen molasses for oil at twenty below! And, yes, I've been known to occasionally start a tractor without plugging it in for a while, but I refuse to brag about it!

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Hugh MacKay

02-15-2004 20:39:49

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Re: Re: Re: Cold weather starting in reply to Bob, 02-15-2004 16:58:48

Bob: No question Cliff is right, and believe me that is exactly what I did 90% of the time. I agree whole heartedly than no need of engines having that cold molasses treatment. Sometimes engines must be operated miles from any electricity and they have to start and start every day. Yes it costs and costs big money on cold weather starts on larger diesel. A friend of mine tried putting quick couplers on his pickup heater hoses and on the diesel. Two years later I asked how it worked. His responce fine if you want to replace pickup engines every year.

One of the items I see quite regularly on this site is 25 year old tractors with little more than 8,000 hours on them. Where I come from some of these diesels are seeing 2,000 to 3,000 hours per year clocked on their meters and yes they damn well have to start. It must be great to be able to afford a big diesel and do little or next to nothing with it. Why you wouldn't even need to start it below freezing ever. And definately never away from electricity.

May I remind you the guy wanted to know how cold these engines would start. I told him what I know.

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Hugh MacKay

02-15-2004 14:14:16

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Re: Cold weather starting in reply to little john, 02-15-2004 09:30:15

John: Once and only once my dad and I started a 6 volt Farmall 300 at -40F unassisted in any way. The tractor was less than 6 months old at the time. It just went ur---ur---ur and fired up on the the 3rd one. The governors were frozen and to keep it from overreving I had to jump on and drive it in deep snow with brakes held on for awhile. Since that time and as far as I'm concerned they can sit if it is that cold. Even back then my dad hoped it wouldn't start.

A few years later I had a crew hired in the bush cutting wood using a my John Deere 540A skidder. They showed up one morning for work - 36F and machine out in the bush. I figured this is no problem, it will never start. I wouldn't let them go by themselves as I didn't want them trying forever and killing the battery. Much to my surprise with a little shot of ether it was going. I should have sent them home in the beginning as they only worked a couple of hours and went home, quite frozen. You can't work hard enough in the bush with a chain saw at those temps to keep warm.

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Nebraska Cowman

02-15-2004 12:05:47

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Re: Cold weather starting in reply to little john, 02-15-2004 09:30:15

my little Allis will start unassisted at 20 below. The diesel has to be plugged in and i have to remember to have enough #1 fuel blended. anything below zero takes a good battery because half of more of the battery's strength is lost just due to the cold. warming the battery up by leaving the charger on overnight makes a big difference.

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02-15-2004 11:56:59

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Re: Cold weather starting in reply to little john, 02-15-2004 09:30:15

Back in the late 50's, we used to leave a tractor at our wood lot most of the winter. The wood lot was 7 miles from the main farm so it was impratical to drive it back and forth everytime.
At first we had JD 420U and it would start to about -30F. Any colder than -30F we would lite a fire under the oil pan using an old hub cap and some gas. In 58 we had traded our SC for a 300U
and we started using the 300U at the wood lot and it would start to about -25F. We would park it on a steep hill and if it would not start with the starter, it would always start in 5th gear rolling down the hill. In 1962 we traded 300U for B414D and it would not start much below -5F without boosting or block heater. We always used 10W oil in the crankcase for winter.

Today my brother has a 495D that he uses every day to feed round bales and silage. It will start to about -10F without block heater. Neighbor has CIH 5220 and 65HP Kubota Diesel and he cliams Kubota will start at -25F and CIH requires block heater.

In Canada we have to use the Diesel fuel that is blended for winter operation.

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KURT (mi)

02-15-2004 11:40:18

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Re: Cold weather starting in reply to little john, 02-15-2004 09:30:15

One trick I used to use when I had my Farmall H is to take out the plugs and dip them in Gasoline B4 starting. I dont know how much it helps but I got it started in 0 degree F weather.

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casey

02-15-2004 10:27:15

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Re: Cold weather starting in reply to little john, 02-15-2004 09:30:15

i'm in eastern south dakota and two weeks ago we had our cold spell for the season, a week and a half with an average temp of -20. i know it's not as cold as some of you guys up in canada! anyways my 706 gas started everytime. it wasn't even plugged in. it took a little coaxing as every machine is different but if you "know your equipment" you will always get it started. my 2 cents

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Dave BN

02-15-2004 09:55:40

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Re: Cold weather starting in reply to little john, 02-15-2004 09:30:15

My BN starts OK even below zero. Good battery and battery cables are a must. When its real cold I hold the clutch down when starting so the starter doesn't have to turn the transmission too. Dave.

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