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off subject - continuing fraud on sale of my 560

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ronohio

04-24-2004 04:37:00

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You all might be interested in a second email I got. Sounds the same but he uses a different name. Maybe I shouldn't print his email address but will supply it if you email me.

Hello,

I got the pics and I have forwarded it to my client he said he really love the Farmall 560 diesel.Kindly send your full name that will be on the check,your mailing address and your contact phone number.so that the check will be issued and sent to you as soon as possible.My client inform me that he will be sending a check of $6000 that you will deduct the money for the Farmall 560 diesel and send the balance to the shiping company that will commence for the shipment of the Farmall 560 diesel.I will be awaiting your quick response.

Regards,

J.Smith

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MJD

04-24-2004 23:57:57

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Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of my 5 in reply to ronohio, 04-24-2004 04:37:00

First of all - WHY would you want a check for MORE than the selling price? OR, why would you accept one over the actual agreed price? Wouldn't you wonder about that ? That is the first thing I would ask...why send him any return check at all? He can send the correct payment the FIRST time, then you wait until it clears before you release your tractor sold, or whatever merchandise involved! Maybe it might take a month...so what ? I do not see why people get "taken" if they were more cautious about it all. I mean..... here you are - sending a check BACK to him ... and not knowing yet if HIS is any good first?? People need some money management courses/accounting it looks like to me !!!

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ken

04-25-2004 16:19:49

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Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of in reply to MJD, 04-24-2004 23:57:57

no mjd they need a brain the first one they were issued has crashed and a recovery will not help.jeez if i wanted 3000 for a tractor and they wanted to send me 6000 heck i'd keep all of it and make them come get the rest.one way to stop them from sending you these DEALS is don't sell anything on the internet,

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Old News

04-24-2004 21:45:30

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Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of my 5 in reply to ronohio, 04-24-2004 04:37:00

That has to be about the umpteenth time someone has posted such a story. Does anyone actually find this to be interesting or newsworthy?

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Leroy

04-25-2004 05:35:18

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Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of in reply to Old News, 04-24-2004 21:45:30

Well, we're not exactly reading a news paper hear. So newsworthy is not applicable and I'd say by the # of responses there's interest. As I posted earlier a local TV news station ran a story about this scam....so maybe it is newsworthy too.

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Leroy

04-24-2004 19:19:10

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Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of my 5 in reply to ronohio, 04-24-2004 04:37:00

One of our local TV news stations ran a special on internet scams recently. They gave the overview of a similar scam only this was involving pets being sold over the internet rather than tractors. Guess it's not only buyer beware....it's also seller beware.

Got a quick comment on sellers never opening their checkbook. That's not exactly correct. The seller doesn't have to open their checkbook but to get a deal done sellers often do.....I did recently when I sold my house.

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red reaper

04-24-2004 13:40:55

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Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of my 5 in reply to ronohio, 04-24-2004 04:37:00

There was a boy here in my county that attempted to sell a car on ebay.the auction ended and the scammer won the last bid.told the kid he's send the check double,then have him send back the other half.He deposited the cashiers check,sent the money to the thief,then the check bounced.He ended up having to take a loan out to pay the bank off. Young inocent kid taken advantage of.Wish the thief could be strung up.

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Hagan

04-24-2004 09:48:16

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Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of my 5 in reply to ronohio, 04-24-2004 04:37:00

I had a guy wanting to buy a wheel from me on this site. I got a nice response back wanting the same thing. pay 200% and give half back. And he took care of the shipping. These guys are cons. I forewarded it to my local sherriff and he forewarded it to the colorado bureau of investigation.
Told the con that and I have never been botherd by them again.

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Chris Brown

04-24-2004 09:38:42

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Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of my 5 in reply to ronohio, 04-24-2004 04:37:00

If you get the check take it to your bank manager and tell him all the detalis about the scam. I never received the check ,But I told the banker about it ,he said he could send the check through the main office and it either would or would not go either way I was in the clear and someone higher up could prosecute the bad guy.

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Nebraska Cowman

04-24-2004 07:47:26

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Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of my 5 in reply to ronohio, 04-24-2004 04:37:00

I don't even read that STUFF. Don't you puter have a "DELETE" button?

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Bill

04-24-2004 06:55:38

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Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of my 5 in reply to ronohio, 04-24-2004 04:37:00

J Smith,
It is a rip off. Do not respond to them. It is a scam. They got so far as to send me a cashiers check. It looked real but I never tried to cash it. Hum! I still have the tractor and I still have the check! I wonder why they don't want their check back!!

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Zak

04-24-2004 07:32:06

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Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of in reply to Bill, 04-24-2004 06:55:38

Yeah, I have been getting them as well. Just posted the ad last night and have three scammers in line this morning. "Yes, I am most interested in your product which is 1955 International Harvester. I would issue you a check in time." In time for what says I? Cash only bud is my reply. If they persist, I get out the firehouse language and tell them where they can put their checks and money orders. (They'd fit but wouldn't be comfortable!)

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Jeff

04-24-2004 07:30:01

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Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale of in reply to Bill, 04-24-2004 06:55:38

Bill,
What would happen to you if you did cash the check? If it cashes properly, couldn't you ship the tractor at that time? Just curious.

Jeff

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little john

04-24-2004 09:41:40

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Re: Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale in reply to Jeff, 04-24-2004 07:30:01

In an earlier post the seller did cash the check to see what would happen, and a few days later the bank ask for their money back after finding the check was fraudulent.

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Wardner

04-24-2004 08:06:50

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Re: Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale in reply to Jeff, 04-24-2004 07:30:01

I agree. The seller is in control. He has the tractor and the check. All he has to do is turn the check over to the bank and wait for it to clear. If it doesn't, there is no sale. The buyer should be made aware that the sale is conditioned by the receipt of a good check and extended until cleared. Where is the risk?

Of course, I think that most sellers are expecting to sell for cash to avoid tax liabilities on a capital gain of fully depreciated property. That is a scam in itself.

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Paul in Mich

04-24-2004 09:51:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud on in reply to Wardner , 04-24-2004 08:06:50

wardner, You do mean the the government tax system is a scam, do you not?

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Steve

04-24-2004 07:47:16

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Re: Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud on sale in reply to Jeff, 04-24-2004 07:30:01

What part of the scam don't you understand? They send you a phony cashiers check, you cash it, and then when it finally goes through all clearing points in ten days the bank calls up and wants their money back because the check turned out to be counterfeit. There would be no danger in loosing your tractor because the phony shipper would never show up. The scam is the cash that you refunded to them for the extra amount they wrote the check for.

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Jeff

04-24-2004 07:57:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud on in reply to Steve, 04-24-2004 07:47:16

Steve,
I thought cashiers checks were made out after the money was withdrawn (by the bank and put into escrow or equivalent) from the requestor's account; that way the check was guaranteed. I also thought the bank verified their authenticity before making the transaction. That's the part of scam I didn't understand - I thought the bank secured the funds before a transaction was complete. Sorry for my ignorance.

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Paul in Mich

04-24-2004 10:02:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud in reply to Jeff, 04-24-2004 07:57:50

Jeff, Cashier's checks are easier to counterfiet than money. They are not drawn on any bank, but cranked out by the perps. The banks dont realize they are fake until they attempt to collect funds from the supposed originating bank at which time they find out that it wasnt drawn on that bank or that bank doesnt even exist. A personal check is more secure than a cashiers check in that the laws make it easier for the recipient to collect through the courts. phony cashiers checks are almost impossible to trace back to the maker. The F.B.I has on their payroll a consultant in this type of scam and it was because he was one of the worlds slickest scam artists that the F,B.I. realized how much of our treasury is being skimmed off by these thieves. To even consider selling to an overseas buyer, is a risk in itself. If things go bad, you have absolutely no way of recovering your loss. One sale of one tractor isnt worth it. Having said all this, if you still want to trust these foreign buyers and accept their cashiers checks, have at it. Hugh MacKay has a saying that he has repeated numerous times on this subject, and that is, "The seller never opens his checkbook".

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Bob

04-24-2004 09:18:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud in reply to Jeff, 04-24-2004 07:57:50

This scam is (relatively) new, and not ALL banks are on to it, and the scammer counts on the delay between you cashing the check, and sending the "extra" money to the scammer, and your bank having it charged back to them as no good.

As for those who say to "go ahead and deposit the check... what have you got to loose", what you will loose is $10.00, $20.00, $25.00, or more that the bank will charge you when the check later turns out to be phony, AND you will probably loose any trust your banker has in you!

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Wardner

04-24-2004 08:17:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: off subject - continuing fraud in reply to Jeff, 04-24-2004 07:57:50

Jeff, you are right. Seller should hold the property for some grace period after the check clears to avoid back charges by the bank if they made an error. Buyer needs to know this prior to sending check.

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Paul in Mich

04-24-2004 10:11:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: off subject - continuing f in reply to Wardner , 04-24-2004 08:17:47

wardner, Pardon my redundency, but as I stated before, Since when does a seller open his checkbook? Its not worth even taking a cashiers check to begin with because even if the bank deposits it in your account and waits for it to clear, if it doesn't, then your account is charged with a $10.00 to $30.00 return check charge.....Yes, even though you didnt write the check, banks are charging the recipients for bad checks, just like they are now charging you for balance inquiries. There are ways to accept funds for goods, but cashiers checks isnt one of them, especially foreign originated ones. Whats wrong with cash at pick up? Is that tractor taking up so much precious space so as to make less than a secure financial arrangement to sell it?

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Wardner

04-24-2004 12:18:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: off subject - continui in reply to Paul in Mich, 04-24-2004 10:11:48

Sellers frequently open their checkbooks. They do it when offering rebates. It is a "kickback" arrangement between the two parties. The buyer gets a big cost basis based selling price, the seller gets the benefit of high sales volume, and the buyer gets tax free money. That's another tax scam that seems to be legal. Has anybody ever declared a rebate check as income?

In these tractor deals, the buyer gets to launder money and receive it tax free. I have no idea what the tax laws are like in Nigeria (or wherever these poorly written deals originate) but I suspect they are driven by tax policy. I also believe some are outright fradulant.

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