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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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826diesel vs 4020 JD

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J.G.

05-24-2004 10:19:54




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The last issue of Red Power tells the story about how the 756 was rebuilt to compete with the 4020. The 756 was rated at 76 HP vs 94 for the 4020. So IH replaced the 310 HP Nuess German built diesel with the 358 Nuess diesel set at 91 HP and installed the 856 tranny and final drive and called it the 826. My question is have any of you had a chance to see a 826 against a 4020. Backin the early seventies I had 806 diesel that would out work my neighbors 4020.

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Keith T

05-25-2004 09:19:46




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 Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to J.G., 05-24-2004 10:19:54  
1st is own 2 1953 's aSuper H and a Super M so I'm not anti IH.I was an IH salesman in the1970's and early 1980's In my opnion IH had the tractor Mkt. sewed up till about 1955 and then it was all down hill from there .They were always trying to play catchup,putting slightly different sheet metal over and old design .Planters ,combines ( when the rotory came out )and tillage tools kept our dealership in business till Case bought us out. I do see that CaseIH tractors are makig a comeback in my area at least

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wolfy

05-24-2004 18:44:02




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 Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to J.G., 05-24-2004 10:19:54  
Got one of each; about same hours. Both GREAT tractors. The 826 is the choice for most jobs. Shifts as smooth as silk, has 16 speeds, throttle either hand, very powerful & lugs, easy on fuel, much better 3-pt, heavier tractor & hitch, dual PTO at the ready; rides & handles like a cadillac-no, like a Lincoln. Both are great. The 826 is GREAT.



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Larry B.

05-24-2004 17:57:32




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 Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to J.G., 05-24-2004 10:19:54  
Ever been to a tractor pull? I go to a big one every year where there are farm stock,super farm stock,prostock, hot farm and mod. classes. In the hot and super farm stock, where you turn up the fuel and rpm's run any cu.in.( take IH 436 in a 1466 verses JD 531 in a 6030) JD's walk away. Now on the other hand in farm or field classes where there is a 2500 rpm limit and stock tractor except they do turn up the pumps on fuel, most of the time IH rules. Never seen a 826 but lots of 806,1206,856,966,1066,exct. pull and a 856 will walk away with no problem from a 4020. Seen one time a IH 1256 keep up with a JD 6030. Also in the stock class a 1206 beat a DEERE 4430 but so did the FORD 8700.

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Hugh MacKay

05-24-2004 14:25:22




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 Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to J.G., 05-24-2004 10:19:54  
J.G.: Don't think the 826 was ever designed to do anything with the 756. It was more just a way of building a cheap 856. That is exactly what it was also.

I think that if the truth be known 26 series tractors were a line of Farmalls built in Europe for the European market. Sales dictated where they went from there. IH in it's wisdom decided to sell them in North America, as they could be sold for less money than the comparable 56 series, thus compete with Deere.

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wolfy

05-24-2004 18:26:39




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 Re: Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-24-2004 14:25:22  
The 826 and 1026 were built in the Rock Island plant (Quad cities-Illinois, Iowa). The 826 was in fact the 756 successer, some were hydros, most were gear drives; the 1026 was a Turboed, hydro 856. Very American. There WAS a 624 British or something utility style.



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Hugh MacKay

05-24-2004 20:06:06




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 Re: Re: Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to wolfy, 05-24-2004 18:26:39  
Wolfy: The first I ever heard of 26 series tractors is being sold across Europe a full two years before they were in the Canadian buyers guide at least. I'm not sure when they appeared in the US buyers guide as the Canadian and US guides were different.

No question the chassis was very American, but the whole tractor had a few transplants, mainly engine. Anyone who has ever operated a Farmall equiped with that German built 358 know they don't hold a candle to the American built 360, and a sick joke along side an 806 or 856. I have operated a few examples of each in my day, and while the 358 may have fuel economy and endurance, it doesn't cut it on hp and torque. Clearly these became just what they were, cheap competition for Deere, nothing more.

As for the 624, 724 and 824, German designed and built. They called them Agrimatic S, here in Canada we called them Agrivation, at 5 years of age most of them could be seen at the Deere dealers used lot. We saw a lot of European designed equipment, all makes, here in Canada, starting in the late 60s as those egg head political leaders we had decided it was more important to trade in Europe than the US and then went on to change Canada to the metric system. I could go on and on about than one, but it's clearly more than just a tractor issue.

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CBL

05-24-2004 20:40:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-24-2004 20:06:06  
Hugh MacKay You say the 826 with the 358 can't hold a candle to a American built 360 and a sick joke along side a 806 or 856. I agree the 856 with the 407 is alot more tractor however there is more comparison between the 826 and the 806. Could you please tell me more of your experience with each, and the reason for your statement?? I have one of each 826 and 806 just wondering your reasons. I feel very strongly the 826 is "not" just cheap competition for the 4020.

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Hugh MacKay

05-25-2004 03:42:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to CBL, 05-24-2004 20:40:24  
CBL: Let me start by saying, in the 1960's as 06, 26 and 56 series tractors came on the market, I was just nicely into farming on my own. I was using a 560D turned up to 90 hp, bacause I couldn't justify buying a new 806 or later 856. I really didn't like what I was doing to the 560, but sometimes you get by with what you must.

I went to numerous tractor demonstrations, constantly checking prices to see if I dared take the plunge on a new tractor. I tried many of these at mainly tillage demonstrations. First was the 806, then came the 856. Then the dealer alerted me to the 826, much less money due to the German engine. They were about 20% less than the 856. Aside from the German engine there were numerous items like hydraulic valves, etc., optional on 826 and standard on 856. I did not buy as to me 856 looked like better value for the dollars. We had also seen a lot of European equipment all makes here in Canada, and beleive me you just got what you paid for.

I went on and bought a second farm where I acquired a 656D and a 504. I traded the 504 for a new 1066 in 1975. About the same time I purchased a 100 hp power shift Deere. So the bulk of my farming over the years was done with 300, 560, 656, 1066 and the Deere. About 1978 the dealer brought me a used 766 to try. He had taken this in on trade on a new 1086. His thinking was I would trade 560 off. I plowed about 85 acres with the 766 with 360 US diesel. (5x16 semi- mount plow) I was impressed and probably should have traded. That 766 at roughly 2000 hours was a good buy, but I passed on it.

In the early 90s I was helping a friend with his spring cropping. He had four tractors a 666D, 2- 886 and a 2096 CaseIH. One of the 886 was the early production with 360 US engine and the other had 358 German engine. The 666 had as much hp and torque as the the German 358 in the 886. The other 886 with the 360 US engine would walk all over the 2096 CasIH. He had a new 16' heavy tandem disk, and was raving about this new 2096 and it's power shifts. I said," It is good that it has the power shifts, as it has no power." He said as he pushed me out of seat and to right of cab," Let me show you how to drive this thing." He started out at about 3.5 mph, and I standing on the right shifted the power shift up to about 5.5 mph, bingo the Case died before he could get his foot on the clutch. He said,"What did you do that for." I said, " Because the 886 was pulling the disk at 5.5 mph and rarely ever using the TA." With that he jumped out into his pickup and burried it in the plowed field. I had to tow him out. He apparently went to the house and phoned the CaseIH dealer and gave him an ear full. And why wouldn't he, his two best tractors being the 666 and the early 886, were also the oldest. A few days later the dealer asked me what I had done to get him so stirred up. I said, " I just showed him reality."

The dealer told me later that the 886 issue was really the last straw for him, and probably the single biggest reason for IH downfall in the area. The early 886 he sold had the 360 US engine, that in turn sold a lot more 886, only problem was later ones had 358 German engine. He had one wack of unhappy farmers on his back. A lot of his costomers were 40 to 60 cow dariy farms, bought these tractors for forage harvester work. That area went from being 90% IH red in the 1960's to no CaseIH dealer since about 2001. Today it is Green and Blue country, and if they take an IH on trade they just ship it out of the area.

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Keith T

05-24-2004 13:24:37




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 Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to J.G., 05-24-2004 10:19:54  
I have owned and operated both .I notice no one talks about shifting ease. ,fuel economy,or resale value. Lets compare apples to apples and put a turbo on the 4020 and crank up the fuel and see what happens.



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Redman

05-24-2004 14:31:43




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 Re: Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to Keith T, 05-24-2004 13:24:37  
does the red one get a turbo too?a 826/856 was not a turbo engine,and until you get to the case/ih line i have yet to see a deere of equal size pull with a red one.



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K.B.

05-24-2004 11:39:08




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 Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to J.G., 05-24-2004 10:19:54  
Never seen an 826 in the same field with a 4020, but I would imagine that the 8 would do quite well against the lighter Deere. Our 826 gear drive with an M&W turbo puts out 107 hp on the dyno and out works our 966. Also, I kind of disagree with the statement that a 826 is a "rebuilt" 756. Besides the heavier rear end, 826 has a 37 gallon fuel tank. 756 only has 33 gallon, 856 has a 42 gallon tank. The grill, radiator, hoods, and dash on an 826 stand about 3" higher than on a 7. 826 could have either a gear drive or a Hydro transmission. 756 and 856 were gear drive only.

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Jeff

05-24-2004 11:18:28




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 Re: 826diesel vs 4020 JD in reply to J.G., 05-24-2004 10:19:54  
J.G.I HAVE NEVER SAW THE 826 AGAINST THE 4020,BUT I HAVE RAN THEM AGAINST THE 4010,THE 826 WAS ALL OVER IT,ALSO I HAVE CHOPPED SILAGE WITH THE 826,AN 8000 FORD,THE 826 W/ITS HYDRO WOULD ACTUALLY CHOP MORE THAN THE LARGER,MORE H/P FORD(ABOUT 16 OR 17 MORE).SORRY I COULD NOT BE OF MORE HELP,BUT I HAD TO PUT IN A GOOD WORD FOR THE OL"826-JEFF



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