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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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856 verses 1086 on fuel

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Larry B.

05-26-2004 05:24:53




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Am looking at a 1086 to pull my round hay baler. I don't have a cab on any of my tractors and looking for one with a cab to get out of the dust. I use my 856 to bale with now and wandered if anyone knows how they compair on fuel consumpion? I roll about 3,500 to 4,200 bales a year and at today's fuel prices I don't want a tractor that will use a lot more fuel.




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scottAR

05-28-2004 20:13:12




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 Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Larry B., 05-26-2004 05:24:53  
I had a 1066, 1086, 1466, 1566 and still have a 966. In heavy tillage there was no difference in the fuel consumption of all four big tractors. They all pull up to the fuel tank at noon. You could put any of them on an eight row planter and run for a day and a half. But, I would much rather have any 56 series tractor in a freezing dust storm than any 86 series tractor. They ride so rough since they moved the cab forward so you feel the front wheels bounce and they shift so bad.

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Hugh MacKay

05-26-2004 19:03:03




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 Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Larry B., 05-26-2004 05:24:53  
Larry: I don't know about the 1086, I bought a new 1066 in 1975. Fine tractor if you were working it to the hp limit and then some, other than that it just sucked too much fuel. I think it would burn 4 gal per hour idleing. When working 10 gal. per hour not uncommon. I'm talking Canadian gallons.

I wouldn't get right excited about a cab for baling. Cabs are great dust collectors as well. I had three tractors with cabs yet the guys always wanted the open station for round baling. At least the dust can blow away.

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Larry B.

05-27-2004 20:10:09




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 Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-26-2004 19:03:03  
Are canadian gallons different than US measurements of a gallon?



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Hugh MacKay

05-28-2004 18:16:40




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 Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Larry B., 05-27-2004 20:10:09  
Larry: Until our brilliant legislators adopted the metric system, we used the Imperial Gallon, It is 5 of your quarts. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the metric system, had everyone made the move.



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AL HANSON

05-27-2004 19:28:19




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 Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-26-2004 19:03:03  
I just ran our 1066 today pulling a fifteen foot no-till bean drill. I used five gallons an hour. It is set at 155 horsepower. If you poke a hole in the fuel tank you might be able to use ten gallons an hour.



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Hugh MacKay

05-28-2004 18:10:45




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 Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to AL HANSON, 05-27-2004 19:28:19  
Al: You apparently have not seen a 1066 being pushed to the full extent of it's horsepower.



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AL HANSON

05-29-2004 10:59:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-28-2004 18:10:45  
Hugh, I have run one for 28 years and have pushed it to its full power many times. I ran nine hours the other day no-tilling in beans in hard ground. There is an o-ring that goes out in the injector pump on those tractors. When it does fuel consumption goes way up and they go up about 100 horsepower. Had it happen on our 4166. They dynoed a 1066 that it happened to at the dealer, It had 225 horsepower. Our tractor is 28 years old and has never been overhauled. It has 8,400 hours on it and I have never been able to put more than six and a half U.S. gallons an hour through it no matter how hard I work it. Maybe Canadian hours are much longer.

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Hugh MacKay

05-29-2004 13:47:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to AL HANSON, 05-29-2004 10:59:06  
Al: Bought my 1066 new in Sept 1975, and they don't need anything wrong to burn the 10 gal. per hour. I have had numerous other people tell me the same. Try running a Dika root windrower or a Rockland Rotoveyor. You'll see what fuel consumption is all about. The hours went on my 1066 at the rate of 1,000 per year. It also dynoed 150+ hp several times over the years as it came from factory. Take a look through the acrhives, you will see other 1066 have done the same. At 8,400 hours what in heavens name have you been doing with that tractor all these years. Most of us that bought them had to work them.

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AL HANSON

05-29-2004 17:05:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-29-2004 13:47:59  
Hugh, Unlike you we have other bigger tractors to spread the work around instead of working one tractor to death. Plus we went to no-till so the hours go up slower. We have a 4166, 1066, 966, 856,and a 6260 Deutz-allis, Back in the 1970's we put 600 to 700 hours a year on the 1066. We pulled a twenty foot Cook plowing disc with notched blades. You should try that sometime in hard clay. It pulled so hard that if you dont have duals on the tractor it would go sideways. It's a very heavy disc. The tractor didn't use ten gallons an hour back then either. My dad laughed when he heard ten gallons an hour. Even our 4166 doesn't use more than seven gallons an hour. You are the only person I have heard of that complains about getting 10,000 hours out of an engine. Even John Deere only expects 7,000 hours out of their new engines. I have a cousin that works in engineering for John Deere and that's what he says. The new tractors are actual hours. A dealer told me to add thirty percent to the hours on the older tractors with mechanical hour meters because they are off by that much on average. So you're 1066 could have had as much as 13,000 hours on it when the engine went.

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Hugh MacKay

05-29-2004 17:46:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fue in reply to AL HANSON, 05-29-2004 17:05:38  
Al: I think you best talk with that dealer again, old meters were hours at standard PTO rpm. New ones are hours engine is running, could be 13,000 hours of idleing, not very accurate in my opinion. Just because a dealer said it doesn't make it right. Thank you but I will take the mechanical meter any day.

You weren't the only one with 5 or 6 tractors. Try putting 5,000 hours per year on 6 of them. Yes I doubt if 1066 ever hit the 10 gallon mark on drawbar work. Two wheel drive tractor probably can't get enough rubber on the ground for that. PTO work will do it.

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AL HANSON

05-29-2004 18:15:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-29-2004 17:46:56  
Hugh, If you put 5,000 hours a year on six tractors you must own half the land in Canada or you drive in circles all day long. We used to square bale 39,000 bales a year ,plus raise 500 acres of corn and milk 100 dairy cows and feed 100 steers and do some field work for both my uncles and chop for other people and not put on hours like that.



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Hugh MacKay

05-29-2004 19:33:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 108 in reply to AL HANSON, 05-29-2004 18:15:14  
Al: Canada is a bit larger than you obviously think. I did a lot of custom work, my 1066 and Deere were really only ever home long enough for planting and filling silos.

On that earlier statment you made, I have never complained about the hours of service from my 1066 engine. Lets get this clear, my complaint was that IH in it's wisdom put these tractors on the market in some parts of the country without water filters. We all know cavitation is a fact of engine life when it comes to wet sleeves. At least I know now, but I didn't know when I bought the 1066. I lived in an area where forestry is a big industry, and these guys were using those same IH, Deere, Cummins and Cat engines and putting an average 3,000 hours per year on them, and quite regularly getting 15,000 to 20,000 hours to first rebuild.

My point has always been, cavitation problem in those IH engines, not equiped with water filters, all occured at about 8 years of age, regardless of whether they had 2,000 hours or 10,000 hours. I didn't feel too badly about mine at 10,000 hours. How do you think the guy with 2,000 hours at 8 years felt? Take yourself for example, you must have looked after the water filter and antifreeze well for 8,400 hours in 28 years. I have said that looking at the performance of my 1066 in the 8-9,000 hour range, it was going to make 15,000 hours to first rebuild. I think if cavitation had not occured my 1066 would have made it. From that perpective, yes I was disappointed. I am and have looked at this, on the 40 or 50 tractors I was personally aware of, and my complaint has always been, just one of the many IH screwups.

In the 50's we waited much too long for better TA and IPTO, fast hitch may have been fine but was killing sales, then the 560 rear problem. 06, 56, 66 and 86 were good tractors, had they improved those nickel and dime things about them. Sure Deere had nicer shifting transmissions, part of the problem of low torque. I'm sure you like I can remember many a long day when you put the 1066 in 3rd or 4th and never shifted anything all day but foreward-reverse and TA.

If I were going to start farming again today, I would want 56, 66 or 86 technology. I'm fooling in more time right now with new technology than I care to mention. 5 year old Mack highway tractor. Computer is supposed to eleminate the need for stupid old country mechanics. It will not pull well above 50 mph. It doesn't matter whether trailer is empty or 45,000 lbs on it. It will pull just the same, and climb the same grades at the same speed. I maintain it has to be in the electronic accelerator feed and sensors that control governors. In high gear it is governed at about 1800 and lower gears about 2100. Computer says I'm wrong, nothing wrong with those electronics. They have been into the after cooler, turbo, air to air exchanger, all power related items. I cant get it through their skulls, this is not power. The truck will haul 25 ton up the hill as fast as it will empty.

Problem is similar technology in on all these new farm tractors built since mid 1980's. Clearly this technology is designed to do nothing more than bleed our pocket books as the industry sees fit. So my apologies for the remark about only doing 8,400 hours in 28 years. If your younger than I and I suspect you are, you best grab a few more 56 or 66 series tractors. You will not make money with new ones.

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AL HANSON

05-30-2004 18:46:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 verses in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-29-2004 19:33:37  
Hugh, I did get a little carried away with the half the land in Canada remark. I am sorry. But I thought you were trying to belittle me on the number of hours on our tractor. We no-till everything and round bale all the hay so the hours do not count up very fast anymore. Yes I am younger than you, 41. I just hate hearing bad things said about 1066's. We have had International diesel tractors since 1965 and only had to overhaul one of them in all that time. That was because a tree branch knocked the oil sender off the engine and the oil ran out when clearing brush. That was an 856 that we traded for the 1066. That 1066 has been a great tractor. We have put a couple of ta's and clutches in it in all those years. We did the work ourselves. Other than that nothing. We change coolant filters every 250 hours and coolant every three years. When we first bought it we changed coolant every year until they came out with the water filter. Other tractors have problems too even the green ones. In another twenty years it won't matter anyway,All the new tractors will be cheap crap made in China. Then people will long for the days when they could buy a new 1066 or a 4430 John Deere.

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Hugh MacKay again

05-31-2004 03:06:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 ve in reply to AL HANSON, 05-30-2004 18:46:55  
Al: Send me an e mail, I want to pump your brain on no till. Just your likes and dislikes of system, where you do this and soil type, etc.



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Hugh MacKay

05-31-2004 02:01:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 ve in reply to AL HANSON, 05-30-2004 18:46:55  
Al: You got that right on, those old Deeres and Farmalls are going to look rather attractive. I am quite tall (6'2") and probably a bit heavier than I should be. I have operated quite a variety of newer tractors since 1990. I have yet to fnd a tractor anymore comfortable to operate for a long day than 56 and 66 Farmalls. The one tractor that comes close in my opinion is the over 70 hp Kubotas.

I would like to see a lot more articulated tractors. I know they have never been great on pto work, but that one seems to be disappearing with more and more self propelled harvesting equipment. I have operated a few of these, and I rather like them for heavy work. I think the industry should build a 125 hp articulated. I always said the one item I would have had different on my 1066 was 4x4. I added duals at end of year one and in my opinion the duals while adding greatly to stability, traction and floatation, they also beat the crap out of the wide front. I think 4x4 would have helped. I also know from my exposure to forestry equipment, articulated equipment much more economical to maintain, than steering front ends.

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Allan

05-27-2004 06:39:11




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 Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-26-2004 19:03:03  
Yes, but Hugh,

Didn't you say at one point that you had the smoke screw turned up on that one to 150hp?

I just can't imagine an ordinary 1066/1086 pulling that much fuel.

Allan



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Hugh MacKay

05-27-2004 15:30:39




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 Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Allan, 05-27-2004 06:39:11  
Allan: My 1066 was as it came from the factory, nothing was ever touched to make it turn more hp. Yes it did put out 150+ hp the 3 or 4 times it was dynoed, but so did a lot of them. I've talked with a lot of new 1066 owners who experienced much the same.

In fact of all the 16 or so Farmalls I ever had only one did not exceed its rated hp. That was the 504 gas. That was the one thing IH had going for them, their tractors did measure up at the dyno and in the field. At least the US built ones did.

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Allan

05-27-2004 17:12:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-27-2004 15:30:39  
Okay, Gotcha Hugh

I've never owned a 10, so I really shouldn't be in this conversation.

But I did have a 966, which I put a blower on and it was very easy on the fuel.

Just suprises me is all.

Hope your day went well,

Allan



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BFarr

05-26-2004 17:56:10




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 Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Larry B., 05-26-2004 05:24:53  
Larry

I just got a 856 this year to bale with so I am curious what your fuel consumption is with yours while baling??

Bruce



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Larry B.

05-27-2004 06:05:43




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 Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to BFarr, 05-26-2004 17:56:10  
If I get started at 10am and run to 7pm, I burn around 25 to 30 gal. depending an if hilly or flat ground. I pull a baler that requires a 90 hp. tractor and in some of thoes hills I bale it takes about every horse. I bale 80% of the time in hi first gear or in real steap hills low four.



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BFarr

05-27-2004 07:13:53




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 Re: Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Larry B., 05-27-2004 06:05:43  
Larry
Thanks for the reply

Like everyone, waiting for the rain to quit so I can get started



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Aces

05-26-2004 10:30:03




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 Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Larry B., 05-26-2004 05:24:53  
Larry My brother bought a late 1979 1086 with the series B engine in it, I don't if he just got a good one or if the series B was just better on fuel, having worked on the 06 56 and 66's I find it hard to believe his 1086 could even run on the little fuel it used. He had a round baler I would say no more than 2 gallon and hour, putting out 145 PTO hp in the field pulling as hard has it could never run it a long enough day to use up 80 gallon, we figured less than 8 more ike 7.5 gallon. I would like to know if he just got a good one or if all the series B's did much better .

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Allan

05-26-2004 05:32:54




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 Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Larry B., 05-26-2004 05:24:53  
Hi Larry,

I think that one is a wash. The 1086 isn't even going to know that the baler is back there; it will just be playin' with it, so fuel consumption should be just about as you are getting now.

Just my opinion,

Allan



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Rob

05-26-2004 10:57:50




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 Re: Re: 856 verses 1086 on fuel in reply to Allan, 05-26-2004 05:32:54  
On our dairy farm we have a ih 856, ih 986 and ih 1486. We round bale with our 986 and make about 1,200 round bales a year. we just had to change the clutch on our 986 because of the wear on stopping and going of the round baler. The 986 and 1486 are great on fuel but our 856 seems to drink it right down. you might wamt to put into consideration of changing the clutch in them.
Rob



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