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856 blowing water out radiator yet. help!!!!

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Larry B.

05-30-2004 13:34:03




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I had a posted a few weeks back on a compression leak on my 856 diesel. I just got done putting a rebuilt head on, 650.00, and a new gasket, 76.88, plus 325.00 labor and it still blowes water out the radiator. This is the fourth time the head has been off. There are no traces of a leak on top or under the gasket. No visable cracks in the sleeves. The mechanic I have working on it has never seen anything like this. Have had a few people tell me to put different things in the radiator like bars stop leak, copper seal, liquid glass and so on. Has anyone ever tryed doing this and what did you use? Don' know what else to do but replace the whole motor. Still no water in oil or oil in water or blow by in the crankcase.

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Jim J

05-31-2004 13:45:49




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 Re: 856 blowing water out radiator yet. help!!!! in reply to Larry B., 05-30-2004 13:34:03  
Have you done a hydrocarbon test on the coolant? The test will tell if combustion gasses are getting in the coolant or you have an other problem.



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Larry B.

05-31-2004 16:58:11




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 Re: Re: 856 blowing water out radiator yet. help!! in reply to Jim J, 05-31-2004 13:45:49  
Have not done that but took the fan belt off so the water pump won't turn and lots of bubbles just as soon as you start it.



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Allan

05-30-2004 16:38:27




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 Re: 856 blowing water out radiator yet. help!!!! in reply to Larry B., 05-30-2004 13:34:03  
Larry,

I've never been into that particlular engine, but the symptoms almost sound like an upsidedown thermostat. Don't know if that is possible on yours, tho.

Have you put a straight-edge on that block? It's about gotta be downstairs after 4 trips thru the head area.

Allan



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bryan

05-30-2004 15:31:14




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 Re: 856 blowing water out radiator yet. help!!!! in reply to Larry B., 05-30-2004 13:34:03  
My friend had the same problem with his 560. It was his water pump and thermostat that was causing all the problems.



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Larry B.

05-30-2004 15:52:17




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 Re: Re: 856 blowing water out radiator yet. help!! in reply to bryan, 05-30-2004 15:31:14  
Tryed three different thermostates. How could the water pump build up that much pressure?



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Tommy D6-8U

05-30-2004 13:56:27




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 Re: 856 blowing water out radiator yet. help!!!! in reply to Larry B., 05-30-2004 13:34:03  
Larry,

Does it blow the water out immediately after cranking or after it warms up a bit? Try putting a radiator pressure tester on it without pumping it up, crank it up and see how much pressure it builds up and how fast. What does the temp gauge say while its doing all this?



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Larry B.

05-30-2004 14:17:44




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 Re: Re: 856 blowing water out radiator yet. help!! in reply to Tommy D6-8U, 05-30-2004 13:56:27  
It's start's blowing water as soon as it starts. With the cap off, as soon as it starts it's like you put a air hose in the bottom of the radiator. As soon as it starts also, there's like a small trace of steam coming out the radiator with the cap off. We put a pressure tester on it and it will build up 20psi in about two min. and into the red on the tester but the tractor does not ever run hot even two gal.low in the radiator. I have a 10 lb. cap on it and useing it six to seven hours it will loose 2-2/12 gal.

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Tommy D6-8U

05-30-2004 14:38:09




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 Re: Re: Re: 856 blowing water out radiator yet. he in reply to Larry B., 05-30-2004 14:17:44  
Larry,

Stupid thing to say I suppose but it's obvious you have a leak into one of the combustion chambers. The reason I asked about how soon it pushed the water out, I see a lot of cases where there is an air pocket in the coolant that heats rather quickly, causing a loss of coolant soon after it cranks. My suggestion (and you may have already tried it) is to open something near the top of the engine just below the thermostat (a hose or plug, maybe the sending unit itself) to make sure the head especially is full of water with no air pockets. I would also get it full of water and pressurize it and let it sit for a day or two (if it will hold presuure) and see where the water goes. If there's a leak, it will show up somewhere. Don't overlook head bolt holes and such. I've seen the bottoms of them knocked out by having oil or coolant in the holes before tightening them and causing a leak into the water jacket. If it's that bad, should be able to find.

Hope this helps!

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Larry B.

05-30-2004 15:49:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 blowing water out radiator yet in reply to Tommy D6-8U, 05-30-2004 14:38:09  
It can't be in the head. Three different heads and the samething. Has to be in the block. Have you ever heard of liquid glass? Was told it will seal up anything .



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Tommy D6-8U

05-30-2004 17:51:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 blowing water out radiator in reply to Larry B., 05-30-2004 15:49:25  
Larry,

Yes and I have used it on something I wanted to get rid of. It will work but I still think, as difficult as it is, you should be able to locate the leak. Drugstores used to sell it around here but I'm not sure now. I think the technical name for it is sodium silicate solution. Is this engine turbocharged and does it have any kind of water/air intercooler or aftercooler? There are test kits available that will tell you if the coolant has any combustion by-products in it. If you get a negative on that, you may be getting air from another source. Kinda' strange its not overheating if its a leak into a combustion chamber or cylinder. Another way I have checked some engines is to take the glow plugs or injectors out of each cylinder and re-install them one at a time (only one), put the pressure gauge on it, and crank it over. The faulty cylinder should show up on the gauge when you put the glow plug or injector back in.

Keep hoping this helps!!!!!

Tommy

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Larry B.

05-31-2004 06:44:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 blowing water out radi in reply to Tommy D6-8U, 05-30-2004 17:51:13  
Thanks for all the help. I think the next step is to try the liquid glass and find a auction for it. I have already put way too much money in it trying different things. I payed 6,500.00 when I bought it ten years ago and atleast if not more on this problem.



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Stan

06-01-2004 07:18:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 856 blowing water out in reply to Larry B., 05-31-2004 06:44:03  
Larry,
You have probably already checked this but, what about the head bolts. Are you replacing them? Did you check the bolt holes for oil, dirt, Prestone, etc... Could be the head bolts are bottoming out and you aren't getting true torque down on the head. Just my 2 cents worth. good luck.



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