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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium cloride in t

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Dave in CT

05-30-2004 23:46:12




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My '47 H came with fluid in the rear tires and, while I haven't verified it yet, I'm betting the freezing protection is calcium cloride. They don't leak now. There are spots on the rims that look like they've been patched with JB weld or whatever and I'd just as soon fend off any problems before they occur. I'd like to get the calcium cloride out of there, blast and paint the rims, put in inner tubes (unless there are good arguments against this) and get them filled with a liquid that has a freezing protection that won't corrode if I develop a leak. Is it inadvisable to try to do this myself? I can rope the wheels upright to an overhead barn beam but I wouldn't want to try to move them until the fluid is out. How hard is it to remove a standard Ag tire from an H rim? I imagine I'd need to get a tire service to fill them again. What are the non-corrosive alternatives to freezing protection?

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David B

05-31-2004 20:07:48




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 Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium cloride in reply to Dave in CT, 05-30-2004 23:46:12  
Personally, I would drain the fluid out, and buy some original IH wheel weights. The weights are all over the place, I bet you could find some locally. Plus, they won't freeze.

To get the fluid out, we like to pull the core out of the stem, and press down on the tire with the front end loader. This is easy to break tires down, and you don't have to watch fluid come out all day.

Good Luck



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Hugh MacKay

05-31-2004 15:33:38




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 Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium cloride in reply to Dave in CT, 05-30-2004 23:46:12  
Dave: One thing I discovered about 35 years ago is liquid weight is not very practical. It really only gives you a lot of benefit on hard ground or roadways. In a field situation cast weights or more rubber on the ground are much more beneficial. You also cut down on soil compaction.

I was at a tire shop last week, and this guy does massive amounts of tractor tires. He tells me that less than 5% of new tractors are having liquid added. You think about this, the amount of rubber one of those 300 hp articulated 8 tire jobies have on the ground compared to your Farmall H. His ground bearing pounds per square inch is much less than your H. He can probably also pull twice the cultivator or disk, per pound of tractor you can. Rubber on the ground is the way to go.

Now if you are restoring a collector tractor to look at you don't need liquid weight. If you are tractor pulling on hard tracks, yes by all means liquid is the way to go. If you are pulling a lot of heavy loads on hard roads, liquid is the way to go.

I farmed with a 100 hp Deere, 1066, 656, 560, 300 and an assortment of little off set Farmalls. The only tractor with wheel weights or liquid was 300. It had both, why, it pulled heavy silage wagons on hard roads. The others all had big rubber.

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Dave in CT

05-31-2004 17:51:37




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 Re: Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium clor in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-31-2004 15:33:38  
Thanks Hugh. Always appreciate your posts. This will not be a show restoration or a puller - just occasional use for log skidding and transporting firewood. Probably the most extreme traction-related activity would be pushing snow on a grade. I had 450 pounds in a rock box mounted on a drawbar extension, in addition to the fluid in the tires, all last winter and that was plenty. I haven't calculated the weight the fluid in the tires. I also picked up some wheel weights that come in at 150 pounds apiece (Kay Brunner, not IH) which could replace the fluid weight, if I had to.

Your comments bring to light another issue. We season our firewood at the edge of our lawn (most sunlight) so I'm driving the tractor on the lawn to get to it. If possible, I think something closer to a turf tire might meet our needs better. Can one put turf tires on an H? What's involved - just getting wider rims? How wide a rim for how wide a tire? Thanks again.

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Hugh MacKay

05-31-2004 22:36:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium in reply to Dave in CT, 05-31-2004 17:51:37  
Dave: Problem is your use of tractor is still quite hard ground application. Nothing is really going to replace that liquid plowing snow, unless you had 1500 pounds of counter weight.

15.5x38 tire would work quite well but try and find a rim for it that will fit the H. Will not be easy unless you find a set of 300 or newer wheels. I thought of putting turf tires on my tractor for plowing snow with chains and mowing grass without. I have been advised I will not get the kind of traction plowing snow that I currently get from ag tires. I thought with turf tires problem with cross chains in tread would go away. A friend suggested it does but you still don't get the traction you would from ag tires.

For your situation, probably not a better solution than what you have used in past. You put new tubes in your tires, refill with chloride and change the screw in portion of valve stem every 8 years, before it starts leaking, chloride will never reach rims anyhow.

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RickB

05-31-2004 14:08:25




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 Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium cloride in reply to Dave in CT, 05-30-2004 23:46:12  
Rim Guard or the new trade name Ballast Star is sold by most ag equipment dealers in this neck of the woods Dutchess/Columbia County NY Litchfield County CT. It is the 'beet juice' non corrosive liquid ballast that is nearly as heavy as CaCl. Alcohol is lighter than water, and glycol is expensive and possibly toxic depending on formulation. Rim Guard is OSHA approved, so it must be fairly benign.

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340

05-31-2004 10:23:51




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 Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium cloride in reply to Dave in CT, 05-30-2004 23:46:12  
In Michigan alot of people are using beat juice. Its a non corrosive by product from sugar beats that will not freeze.



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bermuda ken

05-31-2004 10:06:17




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 Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium cloride in reply to Dave in CT, 05-30-2004 23:46:12  
Windshield washer fluid. Use it, its cheap!



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Dick

05-31-2004 06:39:30




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 Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium cloride in reply to Dave in CT, 05-30-2004 23:46:12  
Down in the sunny south we use straight water. It is easy to add water to tires. You can buy an adapter for a garden hose for under $10 at auto parts stores, farm supply stores, or Gempler's that allows you to add water and bleed air using a plain garden hose.



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John A

05-31-2004 05:20:01




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 Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium cloride in reply to Dave in CT, 05-30-2004 23:46:12  
Dave, On my ol M,Over 20 yrs ago we went to H20 & Antifreeze. Have never had a problem at all. H20 is 8lbs/gal, so converting from CaCl to H20 shouldn't be a noticable difference. If there is, then add cast weight to your H. On my M I run loaded(H20 & antifreeze)tires, plus 2 IH cast wts. There is another product out there, But its name escapes me for now. Maybe someone else will have that.
Hopes this helps!
Later,
John A

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Novel Idea Guy

05-31-2004 07:20:20




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 Re: Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium clor in reply to John A, 05-31-2004 05:20:01  
Just FYI, most of what's inside a CaCl-filled tire IS water. It's the antifreeze, when mixed 50/50 with the water, that will lighten the load a bit. It'll also be EXPENSIVE.

If that A doesn't have inner tubes, that rim would've rusted out years ago. Frankly, for what little fluid you can get in a Farmall A tire, it'd be worth it to just replace it with cast iron.



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John A

05-31-2004 10:47:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium in reply to Novel Idea Guy, 05-31-2004 07:20:20  
Novel, What Farmall A are you talking about? Dave was talking about his H and I, my Ol M.
A is the middle initial of my name!
Later,
John A.



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Novel Idea Guy

06-01-2004 09:51:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calc in reply to John A, 05-31-2004 10:47:30  
I saw "A" when I first read the post and when I went back to read it again for context when replying. Dunno, maybe I'm getting dyslexic.

Loaded tires on an A is still a waste of time. It's almost worth it on an H, though.



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Tractor dan

05-31-2004 04:57:30




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 Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium cloride in reply to Dave in CT, 05-30-2004 23:46:12  
i use used antifreeze



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Hugh MacKay

05-31-2004 15:46:30




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 Re: Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium clor in reply to Tractor dan, 05-31-2004 04:57:30  
Dan: In the event of a punctured tire in the field, I think I would prefer the chloride on my back 40 rather than antifreeze. You spill that much antifreeze in most jurisdictions today you better hope no one knows about it. Fines for harming the enviorment probably more than all your tractors are worth.



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Van in AR

05-31-2004 17:57:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calcium in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-31-2004 15:46:30  
Hugh, No offence but I use used anti freeze mixed up to about a 20% mixture with water (just enough that it can slush but not freeze solid). If I blow a tire on the back 40 bush hogging I will not call the EPA to help me change it. Tires are 13.6 - 38. You could probably spill as much busting a radiator hose. Van



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Hugh MacKay

05-31-2004 21:52:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Non-corrosive alternatives to calc in reply to Van in AR, 05-31-2004 17:57:51  
Van: I was not suggesting you, Dan or anyone else would call in authorties to help with the punctured tire. Local enviormentalists will usually look after those items for you if they see it. I was moving a road grader for a local company once, rad hose broke on a well travelled paved road. I stopped and shut it down, and of course most of the antifreeze came out on about 25' of road. I called the company office for someone to bring a new hose, tools and coolant.

Well I wish you could have seen the paraphenilla they showed up with to clean up that antifreeze. They spent 2 hours trying to remove stains from the asphalt. Of course the antifreeze had allready soaked in. At one point I got a bit annoyed with them, I suggested the road grader sitting on the side of road with 3' shoulders, and on a blind curve at that, was indeed a far greater menace to society than all the antifreeze that had soaked into the soil before they arrived anyhow. What I didn't know was this company had been fined for allowing a pail of oil to spill. Just the wrong person saw it.

By the way the grader sat there for three hours, they hadn't brought anything to fix it with. That is how paranoid persons who have been fined can become.

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