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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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removing stuck pistons?

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curtis

06-18-2004 20:13:54




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i have done tons of research on how to do this. and nothing seems to work so im trying to make something work on my own. i have soaked them for about 2 months. put a bottle jack under all of them and it just lifts the tractor up. i got one out with a ton of pounding with a bid sledge. and i got one most of the way out btu the sleeve is coming with it. the other 2 wont even move from the crank! so im thinking fill them with something flamable, light it on fire ( stand beside with an extinguisher) and it should heat them up and expand the pistons so then when i put out the fire and cool it down a little i could throw some dry ice in there? think it might loosen it at all? i dotn want to split the tractor because i dont really have the stuff to do it or the ability. so what do you think? i know i sound crazy but desperate times call for desperate measures :P

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Aaron

06-21-2004 07:52:10




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 Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-18-2004 20:13:54  
Try soaking them in pepsi or coke.



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BlueLite

06-21-2004 06:35:30




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 Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-18-2004 20:13:54  
If the head was still on and it were a gas engine you could make a compressor attachment for your spark hole and apply air pressure.

Apparently the power applied is tremendous and frankly a little dangerous.

Maybe a glowplug or injector hole could be used in the same fashion.



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curtis

06-19-2004 08:45:40




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 Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-18-2004 20:13:54  
the tractor is a 53 super m. im not re using the sleeves or anything. just the rods. so im bein carful of those. but i have even had an air chissel on top of the pistons just trying ot break them free. nothing. just makes me shake :p. they are sitting in deisel right now. im gunna go clean up all the falmable stuff in just a minute and ill light em on fire. it is all tore down. doing a somewhat restoration. basically waht i can take off without splitting the tractor is coming off and getting cleaned up and painted. i got one out by using a huge brass punch and a sledge. the sleeve is coming with the other but its takin forever becasue the sleeve is soooo long! but its coming. the last 2 are just a pain. we pulled it with another tractor and i guess it moveda a little cause it broke the top rings off the sleeves and pulled the pison down about 1/8 an inch. but its really stuck!

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El Toro

06-20-2004 10:34:09




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 Re: Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-19-2004 08:45:40  
Hi Curtis, What does the cylinder bore measure on a Super M with the sleeve removed? The piston
is 4.0" in diameter and the overall outside diameter of the sleeve should be around 4.125" or
somewhere near that. If you have that measurement
please post it when you can. Thanks, Hal

PS: Need a close measurement.



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curtis

06-20-2004 12:55:28




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 Re: Re: Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to El Toro, 06-20-2004 10:34:09  
i just went and measured across the cylinder too. its about 4 1/8 inch. if i havent answered ur question just let me know.



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El Toro

06-20-2004 16:32:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-20-2004 12:55:28  
Hi Curtis, Thanks for the info. Did you ever remove all the pistons and sleeves? Hal



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curtis

06-20-2004 16:58:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to El Toro, 06-20-2004 16:32:59  
no, just got one out, one most of the way out, and havent touched 2 of them. i lit them on fire and soaked em in kerosine, air chissled them, and now im soaking them in pb blaster for a few days and ill try again. i just got the crank to break free finally. slowly but surely im gettin it



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El Toro

06-20-2004 18:59:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-20-2004 16:58:07  
Hi Curtis, Take your time you will get them out eventually. Thanks again for the liner info. Hal



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curtis

06-20-2004 12:10:31




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 Re: Re: Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to El Toro, 06-20-2004 10:34:09  
i havent actually gotten a sleeve all the way out yet but i measured the distance around the outside of the lowest part of the sleeve i have half way out. so it should be really close. its about 13 1/2 inch. i used one of those cloth rulers and went all the way around.



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John A.

06-19-2004 05:15:23




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 Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-18-2004 20:13:54  
Curtis, Yes, in answer to your question that can be done.
FIRST. remove all flammable liquids from the area. Then revove fuel tank, from area.
If you can roll tractor outside, make the area as open and safe as possible!!! One at a time, put some Diesel in each cylinder, set it fire. let it burn itsef out. Then pound with a oak 4x4 & sledgehammer.
The fire puts enough heat at the spot where it is frooze up...at the rings. The cylinder will expand slightly so the piston will move. Be sure once you get movement to keep the cylinder walls lubed with Liquid Wrench,PB Blaster,WD-40, or something else you like, to help the piston to come out and just maybe prevent the old cylinders from scoreing.
Good Luck,
John A.
PS, "Jonesy" here on the board put me on to this technique, It works, He swares by it as the best way he has ever used. John A.

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jonesy

06-19-2004 05:31:56




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 Re: Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to John A., 06-19-2004 05:15:23  
John A is correct on the diesel method. It burns nice and slow expanding the cylinder walls allowing the diesel to flow down around the rings. Try this and repost with the results. Everyone who has tried it now swears by it. Good luck.



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El Toro

06-19-2004 04:47:48




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 Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-18-2004 20:13:54  
Hi Curtis, I had the same problem on a Farmall A
that was seized. I used automatic transmission
fluid. They were still hard to remove. I used a
2X2 oak to drive them out. Several pistons can out with the sleeves. To get out the remaining sleeves I had apiece of alumium round stock under
cut on a lathe to fit the sleeve. I then use the 2X2 to drive out the sleeve. I pulled the engine
off the tractor so I would be able to steam clean
the block.

Use can use tygon tubing over the rod bolts
so you don't damage the crankshaft. Some of the
people that write in on here have used coke and brake fluid. Take your time and try all of these. I used a torch to heat the sleeves on the
pistons that came out together. I only needed the connecting rods since I was installing a new sleeve kit. If the sleeves move a little with the pistons, keep squirting any of those items over the edges of the sleeve. We had a saying when using that torch "come or bleed". I had to pull the crankshaft too, since it had to be machined. I got away with just having it polished and using .002" under size bearings on the mains and rods. If the rod bolts are removable I'd remove them. What tractor is this? Good Luck, Hal

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Steve A Reno

06-19-2004 04:47:30




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 Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-18-2004 20:13:54  
Are you trying them one at a time? I had similiar lack of success with an F-12. I used a bottle jack with a 4 x 4 against the rafters and a jig that pushed down on the two offending cylinders pushing down until I thought I would put the 4 x 4 through the roof.

Eventually I tried from underneath the engine block taking off the bottom of the piston rod cap and with a block of wood against the piston rod hitting it with a good sized single jack. It moved ever so slightly and so I went up above and repeated the process from up top. By alternating the blows from top and bottom and by washing down the sides of the cylinder with Liquid Wrench to wash away carbon and rust I freed it up in about 5 minutes. It was amazing how easily it moved once it was cleaned. I'd give something to know the exact physics of why it held so firmly in the first place. My only theory is that the cummulative affects of two frozen pistons combined to produce a sticking power that simply could not be overcome except one at a time. There is absolutely NO way I could have ever freed them up by turning that crank, dragging it in gear or wailing on it with a sledge hammer with both of those things still attached to the crank shaft.

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Kevin (FL)

06-18-2004 20:57:45




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 Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-18-2004 20:13:54  
Curtis,

If you don't have a floor press, you can reinforce a piece of 6" channel iron the length of the deck and drill some holes that align with the head bolts or studs. Use a bottle jack that will fit inside the sleeve, shim up as needed and press the jack against the piston and the underside of the channel iron (after securing the channel). Stretch out some old inner tube around the jack's base so you don't score the sleeves--assuming they may still be usable.....Also, you can boil some water and fill up the water jacket right before you push on the pistons. That will expand the sleeves a little, especially if they're wet type sleeves. Have you removed the conn rod nuts so you're not trying to push more than one at the same time? Once you get one heading down a little you should be able to remove the jack and tap the piston from below. Don't forget to slip a piece of fuel hose over the conn rod studs. If you have a ridge, it'll need to be cut too. Be careful you don't damage the crank journals with all this beating and banging going on. Hope it works out. You could also say a prayer too.

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Eric

06-18-2004 20:29:05




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 Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to curtis, 06-18-2004 20:13:54  
i kinda understand your prob all i did was hit the the bolt that holds the rist pin in the piston and pounded them out but they should have came out by then
i guess if your gona get new sleeves and pistond light them up and heat um good just watch so you dont crack the top half of the block when cooling it down real fast
or throw ice in the sleeves and pull the whole thing out and take them someplace to seperate them you might have to spend some money but will save some time

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David Manring

06-19-2004 00:40:14




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 Re: Re: removing stuck pistons? in reply to Eric, 06-18-2004 20:29:05  
20-25 years ago my dad and i had a 1939 F20 that was stuck. He bought it at a sale so we did not know the history. We ended up with some homemade oak mallets and a sledge hammmer beating, i mean tooth rattling beating one at a time. We did get them out with no damage to parts and to this day she runs like a top.If you got alumnium pistons and they are junk , bust them up or take the sleave with it. It is slow beating them out, but look you just have 4 to do!

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