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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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International 404 not pumping after filter change

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Dan

06-25-2004 13:20:06




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I recently bought a '62 IH 404. The hydraulics (steering and 3 pt. lift) seemed a little slow to respond after starting, but then worked fine. The day after I used the tractor for the first time (light brush-hogging), the hydraulics seemed to respond even slower than originally, but then again, once working, worked fine. I assumed it needed a filter change so thats what I did. Now I have NO hydraulics! I was told that the pump probably lost its prime and to drive the front end into a ditch. This had no effect. Does anyone have any ideas? Is there a screen or anything between the trans and the hydraulic system that could have become clogged and not allow fluid back to the pump? When I check the hydraulic level in the rear, it's now overfilled which makes it seem that it's not allowing it to circulate back to the pump. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!!!

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J in Pa

06-25-2004 19:48:19




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 Re: International 404 not pumping after filter cha in reply to Dan , 06-25-2004 13:20:06  
dan, try filling the canister with hydraulic fluid then put it on. you dont want the pump to run dry.

j in Pa



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Dan

06-26-2004 04:46:18




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 Re: Re: International 404 not pumping after filter in reply to J in Pa, 06-25-2004 19:48:19  
I've tried that. I've even disconnected the suction line near the flow control and filling the canister and supply line from there. None of which seems to work. It pumps out that oil, and that's it. Seems like theres a blockage in the hyd unit (or trans/differential) that isn't allowing oil to return to the pump.



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UFO Man

06-25-2004 17:57:33




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 Re: International 404 not pumping after filter cha in reply to Dan , 06-25-2004 13:20:06  
Dan,

The repair manual says that anytime the system has been opened, you have to fill the reservoir and cycle the power steering several times to bleed the air out of the system. There's more:

It seems that the pump puts oil to a flow control valve that directs the oil to the power steering unit until the needs of the power steering unit are met. That means that the power steering unit has the higher priority for oil and the valve gives the oil to the power steering unit before any goes to the hydraulic system.

If there is trash in the system, it may be blocking the valve. You may be able to clear it out.

If the flow valve has problems, the flow control relief valve are not operating correctly, you'll need to get it looked at by someone who has pressure testing equipment and can rebuild or repair the valves.

Or if you are handy, get a repair book and have at it. If the parts are damaged, you will need a rebuild kit.

Hope it's just air in the lines. The other way looks like a rainy afternoon of work.

UFO Man

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Dan

06-26-2004 04:52:08




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 Re: Re: International 404 not pumping after filter in reply to UFO Man, 06-25-2004 17:57:33  
I know about the flow control valve and the proprietary oil for the steering. I took the flow control valve off/apart and everything looks good - not dirty at all. I didn't have it pressure tested though because I figured that I should get oil out of the pressure line that feeds the flow control valve and I'm not even getting that.



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UFO Man

06-26-2004 07:09:10




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 Re: Re: Re: International 404 not pumping after fi in reply to Dan, 06-26-2004 04:52:08  
Ok, bro, back to the book. We'll start with the original problem and go to the now problem.

Let's assume that the filter replacement went as it should. There seems to be a very exact procedure for that.

The troubleshooting guide says as follows:

Response time too slow, could be caused by:
1. Unloading valve piston sticking,
2. Unloading valve orifice plugged (partially)

Next, your now problem

Hitch will not raise, could be caused by:
1. Unloading valve orifice plugged.
2. Unloading valve piston sticking.
3. Flow control valve spring broken, piston sticking or check ball stuck in orifice. 4. Unloading valve ball no seating.
5. Main relief valve spring broken or valve is leaking.
6. Cylinder safety (cushion) valve faulty.
7. Auxiliary valve cover "O" ring damaged.
8. Linkage diconnected from control lever or valve.

The book also says that the unit should be cycled at least 10 to 12 times to purge air, but I don't think that air is the problem here.

It may be that something that was part of the original problem, like a partial plug of the unloading valve is now a plugged unloading valve.

Try this first, remove the filter plug from the transmission top cover at the back of the axle housing. Fill rear center frame to level plug opening with fluid, Start the engine and with the filter plug out, cycle the lift system and any remote cylinders several times, 10-12, then place the levers in the forward position. Cycle the power steering from one extreme position to the other, then straight ahead. Recheck the fluid level. If there is air, this should take it out. If it isn't air, start with the unloading valve and the flow control valve, they seem to be good candidates for being plugged or otherwise not functioning.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

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Dan

06-26-2004 09:41:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: International 404 not pumping afte in reply to UFO Man, 06-26-2004 07:09:10  
UFO Man,
Sounds like we've go the same manual! I've already removed the unloading valve and all seems good - no dirt, sludge, etc. I blew air through the passage in the valve and it is also clean. As far as the plug, are you talking about the level plug that you use as a sight plug when filling with fluid? If so, I've alreay tried that also BUT that may be where there problem is. As soon as I take the plug out, fluid is pouring out of that plug. That's what makes me think that it is not flowing from the rear center up to the hyd res under the seat. I'm stumped! I've cycled the lift ALOT more than the 10-12 times the manual says but it does nothing. It doesn't even feel like there's any resistance on the levers. I'll keep tinkering. I don't want to but I'm just thinking about pulling off the whole top hyd resevoir and seeing if there is something blocking the feed from the trans up to the hyd resevoir. I'm assuming there must be some type of pickup tube that connects the two, right? Thanks again for all the help.

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