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paint ?

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Dale L

07-21-2004 16:19:24

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I,m going to paint a H and I,m not sure what paint I should use. I,m planing on using an epoxy primer from PPG. I,ve used there base clearcoat system but I don,t think it is sutable for a tractor. They have a polyurethane acrylic enamel and a acrylic based lacquer . Is any one familar with these types of paints and what would be better to use?

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Dale L

07-22-2004 11:58:13

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Re: paint ? in reply to Dale L, 07-21-2004 16:19:24

Thanks for all the input on paint I have one more question . Does any one know where to get a good full face supplied air mask at a good price. Maybe I should start a new thread.

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CNKS

07-22-2004 17:47:54

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Re: Re: paint ? in reply to Dale L, 07-22-2004 11:58:13

You won't like the price, but this is where I purchased mine.

Hobby Air

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gauger

07-22-2004 06:09:32

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Re: paint ? in reply to Dale L, 07-21-2004 16:19:24

Lee, you are correct. 2150 is alkyd enamel. The main reason it is easier to shoot is that you reduce it at a maximum of 8:1 whereas most acrylics are somewhere around 50:50 paint to thinner ie. runnier.

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CNKS

07-22-2004 07:37:46

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Re: Re: paint ? in reply to gauger, 07-22-2004 06:09:32

Most acrylics are about the same as 2150. Example PPG Omni Acrylic enamel is 4:1 paint:reducer. With hardener it is 8:1:1 paint:reducer:hardener. You cut the reducer in half and add hardener. PPG Omni acrylic urethane is 4:1:1. The only paint I have ever seen that is reduced 1:1 is acrylic lacquer -- takes multiple coats, there is no longer a reason to use acrylic lacquer. PPG's products when used as the instructions say are not runny, a better word is flawless, unless there is a malfuction of the operator (me).

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Lee

07-22-2004 06:38:29

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Re: Re: paint ? in reply to gauger, 07-22-2004 06:09:32

That has been my experience. I usually thin to around 20 seconds with a viscosity cup.

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ugly in Tx

07-21-2004 21:03:10

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Re: paint ? in reply to Dale L, 07-21-2004 16:19:24

PPG has a urethane material called Polane, they can match the farmall color. it is a really good finish, it requires catalyst and a special reducer (thinner) but it is worth the money. finish is very scratch resistant and very durable. The exterior material is quite pricey, but if you want something to hold up, it's worth it. It is capable of heavy build up with just air flash of a few minutes. When it cures ( about 6 hours ) you can let a cigarette burn up on it and wipe the discoloration away with a wet rag. You may have to get your PPG man to call in to get the info because it is a specialty coating. you should not need clear coat. They do make a Polane clear coat tho.

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CNKS

07-22-2004 07:50:26

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Re: Re: paint ? in reply to ugly in Tx, 07-21-2004 21:03:10

Thought I was basically familiar with PPG products, so I did a search. Polane is sold by Sherwin Williams, don't know if PPG has a version or not?

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lee

07-21-2004 18:54:13

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Re: paint ? in reply to Dale L, 07-21-2004 16:19:24

Well let's see. You have basic alkyd enamel 2150 from IH. Beyond that you can can add hardener to basic alkyd enamel. You can step up to acrylic enamels for a tougher finish and beyond that to epoxy paints. Beyond alkyd enamel they all cost more and are more difficult to apply and clean up as well as more dangerous in terms of health hazard. That PPG poly acrylic enamel is probably a very good quality paint. It won't be as forgiving to apply as IH 2150. You probably know that. If you've got the equipment and skills to apply it, go for it. Be careful with the chemicals involved especially for the epoxy paints

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CNKS

07-21-2004 19:16:51

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Re: Re: paint ? in reply to lee, 07-21-2004 18:54:13

IH 2150 from your Case-IH dealer is a form of acrylic enamel, most people who have used it have been satisfied with it. Acrylic enamels and acrylic urethanes are EASIER to apply than synthetic (aklyd) enamel. The epoxy term generally applies only to epoxy primer -- the catalyst for the epoxy primer does not contain iso's, nor does acrylic enamel without hardener. Acrylic urethane should not be called epoxy, a technicality, perhaps. The iso's are in the hardeners, not in the paint. Hardener added to synthetic enamel is every bit as dangerous as that added to acrylic enamel and acrylic urethane. Synthetic enamel will fade fast, hardener or not. Don't know what you mean by 2150 being more forgiving to apply. PPG acrylic urethane goes on very smooth if you have the proper equipment. If it works for me, anyone can do it.

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lee

07-21-2004 21:04:25

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Re: Re: Re: paint ? in reply to CNKS, 07-21-2004 19:16:51

I can only try to relate my own experience with the paints. I'm not a professional painter or chemist. 2150 can says it's alkyd resin paint. How is that a form of acrylic enamel? By forgiving I mean it seems that the gun settings
and conditions are not as critical as they seem to be for acrylic enamel. Maybe the difference is really in the reducers I've used. I use naptha with 2150 and an acrylic enamel reducer if shooting acrylic. Maybe the acrylic enamel reducer I used was too fast for conditions. 2150 with Naptha is about as forgiving as it gets. I've never shot polyurethane acrylic enamel.

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CNKS

07-22-2004 07:27:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: paint ? in reply to lee, 07-21-2004 21:04:25

I have not used 2150, but it was pointed out to me some time ago on the Painting Forum on this site that it was a "modified acrylic enamel" I checked at the dealer and that is that what his cans say. I do not know exactly what that term means. Even PPG's paints belong to the alkyd family if you look at the MSDS. One advantage of going with paints from PPG, DuPont, Martin Senour, etc is that their spec sheets tell you the exact ratios, and exact reducers, hardeners, etc. to use with their paints. There is no guesswork and if you are a good painter, the paint goes on flawlessly. When you start mixing brands of paint, particularly additives, that is where the trouble starts. Terminology -- PPG has acrylic enamel and acrylic urethane. I suppose if you add hardener to acrylic enamel, you could call it "polyurethane acrylic enamel". I believe DuPont has/had an enamel that they called poly when the hardener was added. PPG does not say that. I'm not a paint chemist either, all I know is that the modern acrylic enamels and particularly the acrylic urethanes are excellent paints. You just have to do what the instructions say.

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CNKS

07-21-2004 18:46:34

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Re: paint ? in reply to Dale L, 07-21-2004 16:19:24

If you have used base-clear, it will work on a tractor, but is probably overkill. The most economical way to go if you are looking at PPG is to use their Omni system. MP 170 epoxy primer on everything. MP 181 or MP 182 surfacer over the MP 170 on the sheet metal. For topcoat use MTK acrylic urethane with hardener, or MAE acrylic enamel with or without hardener. MP 181 is a one part primer/surfacer, MP 182 is a two part urethane surfacer that must have hardener. Anything containing hardener REQUIRES a supplied air system, a cartridge mask is not enough, and will NOT protect you from isocyanates. People have died from using that stuff without the proper protection. You become sensitized to it until only a sniff will make you sick. Don't use acrylic lacquer, it has been replace by acrylic enamel and acrylic urethane paints, and is not durable or fade resistant. IH 2150 for post 1949 tractors crosses to PPG 71310. IH 50 for pre-1949 tractors (I do not know when in 1949 the change took place) crosses to PPG 70019.

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David B

07-21-2004 17:53:02

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Re: paint ? in reply to Dale L, 07-21-2004 16:19:24

I think that's what I painted my Farmall B with- about $80 per gallon. Whatever it was, we painted a guy's 1256 7 years ago, and it still looks like it did. You would never guess it was his chore tractor that he muds in.

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