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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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806 Hydraulic woes

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Chadd

09-21-2004 06:30:23




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I have a 1964 Farmall 806 with an S-Y suffix on the serial number and 2 remotes. It is supposedly making 105 horsepower with the original R-D pump on it. I can believe that, as it's a great tractor with lots of black smoke! I am having trouble with the hydraulic system and 2-point hitch. Whenever I turn a sharp corner, the OIL light comes on. When the steering hits the end of its travel, the tractor coasts to a stop. After about a second or two, it will violently jerk the tractor back into motion. If you pull the TA back, it takes a sharper turn to make it occur. Also, if you hit the brakes while turning the steering wheel, the OIL light will flash on. Almost instantaneously, the brakes will move to the floorboard and then come back when you stop steering. The steering is also a little weak, as the hand pump slips over if you try to steer the wheels while standing still. The steering gets better as you increase rpm. Another problem is that when the tractor(as well as the hydraulic fluid) gets warm, the OIL light kicks in at idle and won"t go off unless you increase throttle about 100 or 200 rpm. The last problem involves the 2-point hitch. With the tractor running at any rpm, you can walk up behind the tractor and lift the 2 point hitch up to the extent of its travel BY HAND! It has no downpressure at all, and I don"t think that is normal. To give you guys more information, the hydraulic oil and filters have gotten changed every year since we owned it(about 9 years). I drained it out of the rear end, both axle housings, the transmission, and the TA housing. Any info you guys can give me would be appreciated. Thanks!

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Chadd

09-22-2004 05:30:58




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Chadd, 09-21-2004 06:30:23  
Thanks guys, I'll have to try some of what you suggested this weekend(can't do it this week because I am commuting back and forth to college). This is the first time that I have posted anything anywhere, and I am really grateful to you guys for lending me a hand. I love our tractors, and want to make sure they keep running another 30-60 years. There has not been a non-IH tractor on our farm in 80 years. Over the generations(grandpa and dad) we have had a 10-20, an F-14, a B, a C, an H, two M's (one oversized pistons, the other domed and oversized pistons), a W-6, a W-9, a Farmall 340,a 460 gas utility, a 660 Diesel, and a Farmall 656 Hydro. We now have the same W-6, a different M(1940), a Farmall 966 diesel, a Farmall 806 diesel, and an International 2500-A loader utility with a cab. Thanks for your help guys. By the way, what do you guys all have? Also, anyone have an idea how much it would cost to fix that pump? (I can remove it myself, but I doubt I could rebuild it myself)

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K.B.-826

09-22-2004 18:36:47




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Chadd, 09-22-2004 05:30:58  
It's really a good idea to let someone with the manual, pressure gauges, and a Flow-Rater test the tractor before tearing into it. The problem could be very simple, or it could take a $600 pump and a $500 MCV rebuild.



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Allan in NE

09-22-2004 05:46:20




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Chadd, 09-22-2004 05:30:58  
Hi Chadd,

Two things:

First. The pump is gonna run in there at around $1200 if memory serves. They don't lend themselves to rebuilding most of the time as the body is made from aluminum.

Second. Forget everything else for a minute: Tell your dad I wanna buy his 966. :>)

Allan



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Chadd

09-22-2004 05:55:33




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Allan in NE, 09-22-2004 05:46:20  
I really doubt that he would sell it for any amount of money! Its our biggest tractor, and he loves that thing. Its got just up to 6800 hours on it and still going strong. Only trouble is that #1 injector is leaking partly burned fuel outside the motor. The o-ring must have gone. We had another one fixed on #6 cylinder, and when we got it back from the shop it wasn't 2 weeks 'till #1 started leaking. Still waiting to get fixed. We made a 3-pt hitch attachment to hook up a forklift for moving round bales with it. Makes fun movin bales, let me tell you. We load semis two levels high with it.

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Allan in NE

09-22-2004 06:13:28




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Chadd, 09-22-2004 05:55:33  
Yep,

They are one he!! of a tractor; probably why ya never see a decent one for sale. :>)

Allan



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Chadd

09-22-2004 06:15:41




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Allan in NE, 09-22-2004 06:13:28  
I would have to agree with that one!!!



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K.B.-826

09-21-2004 19:28:25




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Chadd, 09-21-2004 06:30:23  
No problem with the hitch, you should be able to pick it up by hand (not a good idea, I think I remember that doing that can cause the hitch cylinder rod to scratch the cylinder bore. I have yet to see any tractor of any brand with downpressure on a factory hitch, although quite a few aftermarket hitches do. As for the other promblem, your steering, brakes, TA, and transmission lubrication are all controlled and supplied by the MCV and MCV pump. Basically, your pump is getting weak or you have an internal leak somewhere. When you make a sharp turn, your steering takes most of the avalible pressure, and there is not enough left over for the brakes, TA and lube, so the pedals go to the floor, the TA slips, and the OIL light comes on. The best way to take care of this would be to let an IH dealer pressure test the system to find the problem.

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Allan in NE

09-22-2004 05:39:57




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to K.B.-826, 09-21-2004 19:28:25  
Hi KB,

Just in a vistin' here.

There is no way that the hitch cylinder rod can scratch the cylinder that I know of, because it is hooked to the piston.

You forgot those old 560's, 400's, etc.; they all had down pressure on the factory hitch 'cause they used an external two-way cylinder.

But, I think you're right about the hydraulics; the first 3gpm is prioritized to the power steering. He says that the light 'flickers' at a very low idle, and everything else is intermittently working "around" that steering.

Therefore, it sure sounds like he is starving for oil to me too.

We then throw in the fact that the pump housing is made of aluminum and this makes it high on the list of things that will go south, given enough time and use.

Hope he posts back as to what he finds to be the culprit.

Allan

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K.B.-826

09-22-2004 18:47:52




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Allan in NE, 09-22-2004 05:39:57  
Hi Allan,

My mistake. I should have said "no downpressure on factory three-point hitches", instead of just "hitches". I'm going to have to do some checking, but I'm 99% sure that the cylinder rod on the 06-3088 series just kind of sits in the bottom of the piston.



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Hagan

09-21-2004 17:35:02




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Chadd, 09-21-2004 06:30:23  
I had the piggy back pump or steering pump replace on my 806 this spring. It took care of the TA shifting to low when I turned the wheels and also made it steer a lot easier. Hey these tractors are 40 years old they do need some things to keep them running from time to time
Hey you say your 806 pulls 105 at what RPM on the TACH?? Mine is sn673 it came with the RD but now has a roosa on it and it pulls 101 at 2400 and 110 at 2100. Best pulling 806 I was ever around.

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Chadd

09-22-2004 05:13:51




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Hagan, 09-21-2004 17:35:02  
I have actually never found out how far over 2400 rpm it can go. I have never dyno tested for myself either. The 105 hp number I gave you was what the dealer quoted me and my father. The farthest I got it to was about 2500 to 2600 rpm. At that rpm, the handlever still had about about a half or quarter inch to the stop. That 806 with the 361D is one of the most torquey tractors I have ever driven. I always tell my friends that when I drive by on the road, all of the white houses need to get repainted!! We used to use the tractor on a GB loader, which was rated for a 110 horse tractor. When I would idle into a pile of dirt, the loader would bow out before the tractor would even spin a tire. When we got it, the trucker said it weighed over 13,000 pounds (800lb of front end weights, full fluid in both rear tires, and four sets of wheel weights on each rear wheel. It has very low hours, with just over 5000 hours on it. Whats funny is that our 966D is cranked up to 110 horsepower, has hardly any more noticeable power, and uses more fuel. The only major repair we have done to it in the time we owned it was to replace the right brake(dead and leaking oil) and to replace a water pump(which ran for 1 summer with a 2 inch wobble).

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Dan 3588

09-21-2004 22:04:15




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Hagan, 09-21-2004 17:35:02  
Dad had an early 806 with the old style pump. He never had any problem with it being short of power. He had it turned as far as it would go, no idea on the hp, but it would blow fire out the muffler going down the road. He loved it and did everything with it. Put 3500 hours on it and traded it off on a new 1466. It was a lemon, motor went out right off the get go, and the hyd pump was never putting out the right pressure and took the TA. It didn't even have 1200 hrs on it. A neighbor wound up with his old 8 and it is going today. They turned it down, but to my knowledge never have touched the engine or tranny. They are a good tractor.

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Redman

09-21-2004 11:35:44




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Chadd, 09-21-2004 06:30:23  
try a gallon or 2 more on oil,also when you turn it to the stop try to see if the 2 pt will lift at that time.
if it does not it could be a bad filter or possibly a oil pump.
if it does lift it is almost certain to be the rear hydralic pump.



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Allan in NE

09-21-2004 11:42:15




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Redman, 09-21-2004 11:35:44  
Redman,

That's kinda what I was wondering, especially when he said he has to speed it up a touch to get 'er going.

Maybe that pump is just gettin' weak in the knees and he is just running out of pressure? Right on the borderline?

'Bout the only other thing it could be, right?

Allan



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Redman

09-21-2004 15:50:24




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Allan in NE, 09-21-2004 11:42:15  
could also be a bad o-ring on the pick-up tube,but the tractor should not lose enough to stop i wouldn't think.
i don't know what else it could really be.



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Novel Idea Guy

09-21-2004 08:41:17




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Chadd, 09-21-2004 06:30:23  
There should not be any downpressure on the 2pt/3pt hitch on that tractor.

As far as the REAL hydraulic issues are concerned, I recall something about an "MCV" multi-control valve that needs to be replaced when this happens. The valve controls all the hydraulic systems on the tractor, including steering, brakes, and TA. I believe this is the unit on the left side of the torque tube, in front of the step there. It's the one that has a little plunger that goes up and down when you move the TA lever.

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Allan in NE

09-21-2004 09:02:41




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Novel Idea Guy, 09-21-2004 08:41:17  
What?

And this valve is malfunctioning only just at those particular times when he turns a sharp corner? :>)

Heck, I dunno

Allan



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Novel Idea Guy

09-21-2004 19:47:34




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Allan in NE, 09-21-2004 09:02:41  
YES. Those particular times are when the hydraulic pressure needs are highest.

Dude, I grew up on 56 and 66 series tractors, which are the exact same design.



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Allan in NE

09-22-2004 04:53:22




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Novel Idea Guy, 09-21-2004 19:47:34  
Whoa there (Dude)! Now, hang on just a minute! :>)

The hydraulics on a 806 are totally different than on your favorite 56 & 66 series.

Take a quick peek sometime and you will notice that the tractors are nowhere even close to being the same design.

Well, other than the fact that they both use the same shade of red paint. :>)

But, ya may be right. I sure don't know what's wrong with this fella's tractor and maybe it is that darned valve.

Just the same, I'm still a bettin' he either has a wobbled out pump or has a low fluid level. Seems odd that the valve would first work okay, then not work, work okay, then not work, etc., etc.

It just sounds to me as though he is starving for oil, for whatever the reason.

Allan

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Novel Idea Guy

09-22-2004 10:58:22




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Allan in NE, 09-22-2004 04:53:22  
Yeah, but if it was starving for oil, the pump would go to pot in short order. Hydraulic pumps aren't designed to run dry.

Maybe they're different as far as outward appearance, but the 806 has an MCV just like the 56 and 66 series.



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Novel Idea Guy

09-22-2004 11:27:23




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Novel Idea Guy, 09-22-2004 10:58:22  
BTW, the whole "work fine, not work, work fine" thing is for the exact reason I stated earlier. The pressure demands on the steering and TA are highest when the tractor is turning. The valve will still hold up to a certain amount of pressure, but is dumping when the stress gets too high.



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Allan in NE

09-21-2004 06:44:21




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Chadd, 09-21-2004 06:30:23  
Chadd,

Sounds to me like your fluid level is too low; have you tried "overfilling" a gallon or so if it does indeed read 'full'?

That hitch doesn't have any downpressure; sounds completlely normal to me.

Those are my two guesses for this morning, :>)

Allan



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corkey

09-21-2004 18:47:41




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 Re: 806 Hydraulic woes in reply to Allan in NE, 09-21-2004 06:44:21  
you definitley have a ps,ta,brake hyd pump getting weak[mcv pump].



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