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moving H wheels in

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packrat

10-05-2004 08:18:29




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I need to move rear wheels in an inch or so each to clear fenders on trailer. i've soaked bolts, beat on wrenches, have only been able to loose two of the four bolts. contemplating heat but a)do not want to dammage castings, b) not sure how effective heat would be considering the mass involved. any recomendations???

thanks

mike




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michael soldan

10-06-2004 06:19:12




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
Packrat, I had a rusty H that needed seals and the rears had to come off. I heated the bolts red hot ,then doused them with cold water. The sudden contraction by the cold water(after expansion by heat) causes the rust to break and the bolts turned out easily when this was done. I used the same bolts for reassembly and I put anti seize on them , that was three years ago and I've never had to re-torque them. I would be more afraid of breaking one off and having to deal with that than any heat damage. At the shop I worked at we used the torch and cold water almost everyday to get tough applications apart and not once do I recall anything breaking when the cold water hit it, I don't recall any failures trying to remove bolts either. I not suggesting that other ideas presented here won't work but this is how I deal with bolts that won't budge.....Mike in Exeter Ontario

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John in NE

10-05-2004 13:35:01




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
I've seen a prson cut the lock washers out below the head of the bolt to loosen them,and he didn't hurt the bolt.Pretty good torchin! John.



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Ray M41

10-05-2004 13:29:56




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
Loosened the ones on my M with a box-end wrench and a small bottle jack.



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Bill46

10-05-2004 13:28:08




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
Packrat, I had the same problem with an old M. I tried everything...then an elderly farmer showed me how.
Like you I had two bolts loose. He tightened them up...and then some. He then took a 3/8 piece of flat bar about 3ft long and drilled a hole in near the end. He then proceded to arc weld thru the hole to the bolt. I about had a heart attack. He let the bolt cool, hit the bar with a hammer to loosen the bolt. He then ground out the weld and went on to the next bolt until they were all loose. He claimed the heat from the welder smashed the rust in the threads and they came right out. He had me worried...but it was easy the way he did it.
My 2cents...good luck

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rustyfarmall

10-05-2004 17:22:51




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to Bill46, 10-05-2004 13:28:08  
Bill, that has got to be one of the most useful bits of information I have ever read on these pages. A great big thank you.



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Bill46

10-06-2004 04:55:43




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to rustyfarmall, 10-05-2004 17:22:51  
You are welcome...we can always learn a little more from the people who had to do with less than we have in this modern age.



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Dave in Texas

10-05-2004 12:00:12




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
I broke a 1/2" pull bar. We did have a 6 foot cheater bar and a big 20 year old on the end of the bar. Then I applied heat and they came right out. No damage. That was a year ago.



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Allan in NE

10-05-2004 10:39:41




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
Mike,

I'm gonna disagree with everyone here.

Those bolts are tight; they gotta be tight to do their job and it takes a lot of muscle to break 'em free. Further, I would "Never" use heat on the things and would consider a 3/4" breaker bar minimal at best.

You need muscle.

You need a hefty wrench like this IH one and a six-foot cheater; they'll pop right outta there. They have to be tightened the same way.

Just my view,

Allan

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rustyfarmall

10-05-2004 11:25:06




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to Allan in NE, 10-05-2004 10:39:41  
Allan, I would agree with you, but if that old H has been sitting out in the weather for most of it's life, those bolts are probably rusted in tight. I have a couple of spare axle clamps out in my shop that have the bolts still in them, with the heads broken off flush. Not to be disagreable, but sometimes those bolts just won't come out.



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Allan in NE

10-05-2004 11:42:56




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to rustyfarmall, 10-05-2004 11:25:06  
Hi ya Rusty,

Yeah, I guess I was kinda over exaggerating to make a point. You just can't expect to break 'em lose with an end wrench or a flimsy little ½” ratchet. :>)

Allan



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John A.

10-05-2004 15:25:50




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to Allan in NE, 10-05-2004 11:42:56  
Packrar, Guys, I agree with you, Allan. The whole heart and soul of a tractor has to be, at some point transmited to the ground. So thoes 4 bolts have to be tighter than "Dicks hat band". A flinsy 1/2 in drive Isn't going to cut it here, I don't care who makes the 1/2in. drive set you use. 3/4 is the min to use. My preference is the 3/4 drive and a 6 to 8 ft cheater pipe. I don't have a problem with heating the bolts to get them out. Just get new ones when you go back together.
Later,
John A.

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Gordon

10-05-2004 09:31:24




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
I loosened all 8 of mine with a 3/4 drive breaker bar with another 34 inch pipe to extend that. As posted soak with PB Blaster.

GW



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captaink

10-05-2004 08:59:46




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
I’m going to presume you have already applied some form of penetrating oil, or PB blaster to the bolts. If not use some. In addition, vibration can do a lot to win the war against rust. If you have an impact tool of some sort, use it to create a vibration in the bolts. If you have an air hammer it will work too. If you don’t, then use a punch or drift and hammer the tops of the bolts and the sides of the castings again the object here is to create a vibration. All else fails get the flame wrench out…

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rustyfarmall

10-05-2004 08:33:01




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
You won't hurt anything with the heat, but it will take a lot of it.



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sammy the RED

10-05-2004 08:27:37




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 Re: moving H wheels in in reply to packrat, 10-05-2004 08:18:29  
Use the gas wrench.



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