TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum

Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

Charles Myers S

10-27-2004 17:48:20

Report to Moderator

Called my dealer today to try to get parts to rebuild oil pump on 1940 H. He said they never wear out . Never sold a new oil pump. I told him I had .005 between gears and pump body, said it was casting wear, gears are hard steel don't ever wear out . I don't think I believe him. Any
opinions on this ??? After 64 years some thing is bound to need rebuilt.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

brianh

10-28-2004 11:20:55

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Charles Myers Sr., 10-27-2004 17:48:20

Of course they wear out. Crankshafts are hardened too and they wear out, don't they? Sure the oil pump runs in oil, but if the oil wasn't kept clean, the same abrasives that wear out everything else wear out the oil pump. The covers do tend to wear before everything else, and you can probably get the most improvement by planing the cover flat (if there are any gear tracks there) and using the thinnest gasket you can get.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Aces

10-28-2004 05:08:39

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Charles Myers Sr., 10-27-2004 17:48:20

Charles Maybe your dealer has not been in buisness very long. The H,M,A,B, pumps got bad enough back in the 1950's and 60's to replace. True the shaft went bad first and the end plate, but they still went bad.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

JLE

10-28-2004 03:51:36

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Charles Myers Sr., 10-27-2004 17:48:20

Other then the diecast cover being warped and leaking, check the drive shaft clearance at the top, and at the main part of housing. That is where I find most of the wear. Have replaced many pumps over the years. If casting is'nt worn, a new shaft is an option.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Slappy

10-28-2004 03:47:27

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Charles Myers Sr., 10-27-2004 17:48:20

I am rebuilding the oil pump on my H right now. I'm planning a complete engine overhaul this winter and I want to get everything as close to original specs as I can. I agree that the bearings are the most likely cause for low pressure - I know I have the same problem as described by others - engine heats up and the pressure drops from 45 to 25. That being said, I do believe that the oil pumps will show wear over time. I have been in three different H oil pumps lately trying to find a good one to put on the rebuilt engine. One had a worn shaft allowing side to side movement. All had gear backlash that was out of spec - the manual calls for 0.006, pumps ranged from 0.010 to 0.014. All also had enough endplay to produce galling of the cover plate - between 0.006 and 0.008. I would guess that all of these pumps would provide adequate oil pressure, as Allen discussed, I still get 45 psi on start-up with some of the measures out of spec. But I'm hoping that by replacing the worn parts I'll see pressures near 60 psi after the rebuild.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

aitch

10-28-2004 01:37:45

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Charles Myers Sr., 10-27-2004 17:48:20

Blue Ribbon Service Manual specs. for the oil pump are : Clearance between gears and body 0.002", end play between gears and cover : 0.003" to 0.005".
Pressure regulating spring has 3-19/32" free length. The spring should test 38.2 pounds at 2-3/32".
I don't think the wear in your pump is cause for concern. As the other posts have said, low oil pressure is usually due to worn bearings. Sid.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

jim jordan

10-27-2004 20:18:40

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Charles Myers Sr., 10-27-2004 17:48:20

Most of my experience is with oil pumps in automobile engines, some were high performance engines. The auto maker provided wear limits for the pump gears and for housing to gear clearance. Unles dirt went through the pump or the pump was run dry, they were usually within tolerance when the engine was tore down. With automobiles, especially highperformance ones, it was common practice to replace the pump when the engine was rebuilt even if it was still good. there were usually three choices for a replacement pump. A stock pump, a high pressure pump and a high volume pump. I am not familiar with the pump for the H, but the pumps that I have seen had a pressure relief valve on them that would dump excess pressure back to the crankcase. If you have a relief valve you should check the valve for leakage and the spring for tension. If the valve is leaking or if the spring is weak your pressure will be low. A relief valve problem usually is more noticeable cold than what you have. Many people used to make the mistake of installing a high pressure pump oh shimong the relief spring to rais the pressure without checking to see where they were loosing the pressure. This would put excess pressure on bearings that were already worn to the point that they should have been replaced and often washed away the rest of the bearing surfaces in a short time. The stock pump was usually the best choice unless the engine had been rebuilt loose, this was often done with racing engines, in which case the high volume pump would provide increased oil flow at stock pressure to make up for the extra oil flow thraugh the losser than stock bearings. Oil pressure will drop drastically on a engine with worn bearings when the engine is warm. Worn pump gears will produce a similar drop but is less common. I would check the pump out real good. then put it back together if it checked out. If it was worn or had any other defects that I found I would replace it. If I reused the pump I would fill it with a light grease to prime the pump before I put it back together. If I replaced the pump with a new one I would open it up and prime it with grease before I installed it. I would check the main and rod bearings and if I found a lot of wear I would check the crank journals. I would check the Camshaft and cam bearingsfor wear and replace any parts that were worn. While I had the engine open I would take a good look at the cylinder walls and the rings if the sleeves showed wear. If it needs done it is better to do it all at once than to pull it down again with only a few hours on it. My best guess is that your crank bearings are causing the drop in oil pressure.
Jim

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Allan in NE

10-28-2004 04:54:23

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to jim jordan, 10-27-2004 20:18:40

Mornin' Jim,

I agree. The only thing worse than low pressure is a pressure that is way to high.

I always called this effect "Washing". Once this type of wear starts, It just doesn't take long 'til you find yourself a brand new orifice in the side of the block. :>)

Allan

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

10-27-2004 18:37:53

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Charles Myers Sr., 10-27-2004 17:48:20

Worn crank bearings, etc.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

tailhunter

10-27-2004 18:29:29

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Charles Myers Sr., 10-27-2004 17:48:20

I have an H with low oil pressure....what else is there to look at other then the pump? What would cause the pressure to be so low? 50 pounds on startup...25 at half throttle after warm and I have seen it go to 0 at idle when warm....why....Thanks...

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

John *.?-!.* cub owner

10-27-2004 18:42:59

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to tailhunter, 10-27-2004 18:29:29

tailhunter, see CNKS reply above. The main and rod bearings on letter series Ih tractors were pressurized, not splash lubricated as many of the older tractors were. The most common cause of low oil pressure, especailly when hot is worn rod and main bearings.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Wayne Swenson

10-28-2004 17:31:34

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to John *.?-!.* cub owner, 10-27-2004 18:42:59

I would disagree with John; Cam bearings are quite likely the most overlooked cause of low oil pressure when hot. It is easy to replace rod & main bearings; not so easy to replace the cam bearings so the home hobbiest may just "overlook" them in the assembly process.
In many engines the oil is first fed to the cam and then what is left over goes to the mains & finally the rods.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Allan in NE

10-27-2004 18:41:13

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to tailhunter, 10-27-2004 18:29:29

TH,

You are describing the classic symptom of wobbled out bearings. Crankshaft and to a somewhat lessor degree, the camshaft.

Another angle to come from on this subject is:

If that oil pump is so bad, why is it pushing so darned hard when it's cold and all it's parts are contracted? The theory doesn't hold water.

You've got a leak downstream from the pump and it is probably leaking at the bearings, IMHO.

I'm not saying you don't have a bad pump, that would be kind of silly of me. What I am saying tho, is that the chances of low oil pressure being caused by a bad oil pump are very, very rare.

Allan

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Carl Finley

10-29-2004 20:01:15

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Allan in NE, 10-27-2004 18:41:13

Take your oil pump apart and see if the gears are wore and if no the pump is good

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Carl Finley

10-29-2004 20:04:34

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Carl Finley, 10-29-2004 20:01:15

all oil pumps will need to be rebuilt if the gears are shot as that is what makes it pump oil and I have done many in my days

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

captiaink

10-27-2004 20:49:37

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Allan in NE, 10-27-2004 18:41:13

Not trying to argue here, but I have seen bad gaskets in oil pumps that caused below normal pressure all the time. As said in another post, unless something has gone through it, an oil pump doesn't wear out. However, Gaskets can fail, and gear plates do rarely warp. That said, most oil pressure problems are casued by worn crank or camshaft bearings,

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Allan in NE

10-27-2004 18:14:25

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Charles Myers Sr., 10-27-2004 17:48:20

Hi Charles,

Heck, I dunno weather they do or not.

But I can say that I've been in a couple hundred trainloads of engines in my day and have never seen a bad oil pump. Ever.

I think lots of folks are looking for a bad oil pump to justify a low oil pressure problem & it is the easy way out. The things live in oil, so how do they wear? Maybe a little, I 'spose

Dunno.....might start an argument, but sure don't wanna.

Allan

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

MN Scott

10-27-2004 18:27:44

Report to Moderator

Re: Dealer say oil pumps don't need rebuilt on H in reply to Allan in NE, 10-27-2004 18:14:25

The only trouble I've seen with IH oil pumps is the aluminum covers on 113's and 123's warping and allowing the gasket to blow out. Gears hardly ever wear much unless they injest dirt.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy