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why did IH fail?

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caseyc

11-03-2004 12:13:42




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i know this has been talked about but i couldn't find much on it. i know the 06's had there issues but the 56's and 66's were great machines. what am i missing?




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old don

11-04-2004 15:59:35




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
MJD, I think you said it all.Good anthology.



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MJD

11-04-2004 03:12:16




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
Like others have commented...poor management ! But..... . I also think that IH was about 3 to 5 years behind from 1958 on -- when the 460 and 560 came out. It is too bad the 06 series came out in 1963, when 1960 or 1961 would have been better. But...hindsight here again ! IH still had great rugged machines though. We had better farming times too in the 1960's and more livlihoods and farms making it. And Now ? Not much like a family farm around me anymore....sad ! It seems like all big business, not just a way of life anymore ...

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Bill in NC

11-03-2004 19:31:37




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
As a boy in the 1960s, I remember going with my Dad on numerous occasions to get parts at the local IH dealer. The dealership progressed from a small downtown location to a larger location outside town and by the late 60s was devoting more space to International trucks than to its farm equipment. Futhermore, it seemed to me that you saw lots more Deere combines in fields starting in the mid 60s. The farmers in my area went from Allis Chalmers and International to Deere with the introduction of the 10 and 20 (3010, 4020) series tractors. However, the biggest issues of all may have been the massive decrease in farmers during the 60s through 80s coupled to the fact that tractors have really not added much functionality since the mid-1950s. With the introduction of 3-point hitches, power steering, reliable hydraulics and adequate horsepower for running a four to six planter tillage equipment set-up, who needs to go out and buy a new tractor when you can just keep overhauling what you have? Most farmers in my home area may have traded their pick-up truck every five years, but they kept their tractor forever in many cases.

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Tim Malin

11-03-2004 17:50:46




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
I see it like an Enron case. Head honchos were bringing in the big bucks, and didn't really want to change their ways, and with the factory strikes and then the depression of the farming economy they got themselves into a hole they could not dig out of. Banking on a continuous economy, that bit them in the butt too. Just think, a little better management, avoiding the temptation to jack profits like today's companies do, and the new IH Magnum's would have came out, and I think IH would be a super competitive company today. Pissing around, and that's what you get when something you can't control happens.

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Buddy Martin

09-07-2006 08:03:33




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to Tim Malin, 11-03-2004 17:50:46  
International Harvester didn't fail. The tractors manufactured by the IH company just were not keeping up with the technology of the agricultural industry. The merger with Case was the only thing that saved either company in the fact that IH had a good reputation for durability and lovgevity, while the transmissions and hydralic systems were way out of date. Case on the other hand; had just invested a war pension into developing a re-vamped version of their powershift transmissions which they still couldn't sell. Both companies were sinking. Case were famous for breaking down, and International was having a hard time competing against companies like John Deere with the justly earned reputation for the most dependable equipment with hydralic systems and transmission design that was far above any competition. So in the simplest form, they took all the research Case had put into a tractor that they couldn't sell, painted it red, put "International" on the hood, and a new agricultural equipment powerhouse was born.

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Dan 3588

11-03-2004 15:21:50




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
Personally, I think the 06s were pretty good machines. All they really did on the 56 series was increase the engine a little and change the shift. IH failed because profits became more important to them than product. And when they finally realized they needed to emphasize their product, it was too late. They survived the 400 gas hogs, and the 60 series. But when they didn't learn their lesson and the 06s became the 66s, and then the 86s, John Deere had passed them buy. Their last Hail Mary, though the 88 series were good tractors, came up short because it entered the market when the market was in steep decline. Not reinvesting their profits in development for sake of more profits (or short term thinking) bit them in the butt.

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Novel Idea Guy

11-03-2004 13:58:05




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
IMHO, what started them down the slippery slope happened long before the '70s or '80s.

It was back in the '50s that IH made some crucial management mistakes. Which desicisions were the mistakes, I don't know for sure. It could have been the decision to release the "00" and "50" series tractors instead of the "60" series, or releasing the "60" series instead of the "06." Whichever it was, the delay of the modern '06 series tractors allowed John Deere to sneak the 3010 and 4010, the first BIG, MODERN row crop tractors, out on the market ahead of them.

Another big mistake of IHs was the penchant to ride a design way too long. The basic design of the M was used from 1939 through 1958. The basic '06 design stayed in use from 1962 through the end. A 3088 is basically an 806 with 20 years of refinements, and different sheet metal, for example.

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ed1

11-07-2004 18:19:33




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to Novel Idea Guy, 11-03-2004 13:58:05  
Actually the M design survived and finally retired as the IH 686 in the late 70's or early 80's.



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Binder-Man

11-03-2004 13:51:48




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
As Little John said, A Corporate Tragedy tells the whole story, "GREED".....

Binder-Man



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JonT

11-03-2004 13:07:39




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
....4020?



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Larry806

11-03-2004 18:54:44




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to JonT, 11-03-2004 13:07:39  
Get real A 4 nothing 2 nothing didn't whip anything. If you remember nothing plus nothing =



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little john

11-03-2004 12:41:49




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
If you're seriously interested, you'd enjoy reading Barbara Marsh's book "A Corporate Tragedy".



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captaink

11-03-2004 12:32:14




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
You might be missing a couple of things, one being the farm depression of the 1980’s. There was a limited amount of capital available to spend on new machinery which limited new purchases.

Another might be that the green line had introduced their generation II tractors with the quad-shift. JD had a nice factory cab in the early 70’s, had a better shift on the go system (didn’t have to reach for a separate lever to do the shifting), and overall had respectable tractors that were holding their trade-in value. JD had a combine line that was respectable and allowed heads to be changed quickly and utilized on different models introduced later. JD also did some diversification into financing and a couple other venues that helped replace lost revenue on their agricultural line.

Just some thoughts to consider

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BERMUDA KEN

11-03-2004 12:26:47




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:13:42  
POOR CORPORATE MANAGEMENT.



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caseyc

11-03-2004 12:58:38




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to BERMUDA KEN, 11-03-2004 12:26:47  
"who" is caseih now? are they on the stock market? nasdaq? if so who's the company?



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psc

11-03-2004 13:05:19




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:58:38  
Case-IH does not excist anymore.
it's CNH now, Case-New Holland.
I believe Fiat-group still has the management (read money) at least they had it in the past.



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Leland

11-03-2004 21:47:36




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to psc, 11-03-2004 13:05:19  
Did I miss something I thought Tenaco owned Case IH and several companys such as cummins.



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scotc

11-04-2004 17:55:56




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to Leland , 11-03-2004 21:47:36  
case ih was spun off several years ago then fiat bought them up.



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Leland

11-04-2004 19:00:56




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to scotc, 11-04-2004 17:55:56  
OK now I know ,when did tenaco sell Case IH?



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scotc

11-04-2004 19:12:14




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to Leland , 11-04-2004 19:00:56  
Not certain, i don't think it could have been more than 5 years before fiat bought them



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Brent in Iowa

11-03-2004 16:38:21




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to psc, 11-03-2004 13:05:19  
Actually Case-IH still does exist. It is a separate company under the umbrella of CNH Global. New Holland is also a separate company under CNH Global, as are several others. Check out www DOT CNH Dot com.



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psc

11-04-2004 05:37:18




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to Brent in Iowa, 11-03-2004 16:38:21  
The brand names still exist but, the tractors are the same
The new Case line(+100 hp) is the same as the New-Holland, only cab and hood are different

If you want a real Case then you must buy a McCormick. the still have the transmission and stuff like used on the mx-series.
McCormick has bought the Doncaster Plant (UK).
And McCormick is part of the Argo Group(Landini-Laverda-Valpadana)

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ed1

11-07-2004 18:17:08




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to psc, 11-04-2004 05:37:18  
Their all Fiat tractors now. Reciently tried a NH TL80A. Lots of power but the placement of the controls are not in the best places. Also when they talk of a syncronized transmission it's not shift on the go. They should just paint them all blue and call then FIAT.



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Brent in Iowa

11-04-2004 10:03:54




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to psc, 11-04-2004 05:37:18  
Exactly correct, the big 4x4 tractors are the same. The smaller tractors, Magnums, TG"s, Tx"s, compact tractors, COMBINES, and other things are distinctly different. So I do argue that there are 2 companies.



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rustyfarmall

11-03-2004 13:02:51




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to caseyc, 11-03-2004 12:58:38  
They are now using the name Case-New Holland Global.



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JB2

11-03-2004 16:32:15




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 Re: why did IH fail? in reply to rustyfarmall, 11-03-2004 13:02:51  
Hi, the killer for IH in our area was the strike at their factories in the early 1980s ?? not quite sure of the date but farmers in our area where in the middle of hay season and could not get parts. My Dad's IH baler broke in July sometime and he could not get parts till September. Luckly a neighbor was kind enough to lend his baler. Then IH started consolidating dealers, now closest dealer was 80 miles away instead of 25.
IH dealer switched to Ford so long term IH customers switched to Ford. Dealer loyallity not
brand loyallity.

My 2 cents
JB2

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