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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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966 is a smoker

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Rich's966

01-07-2005 10:05:22




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Here"s a question for the diesel folks. I just bought a 966 with 4300 hrs on it. It looks to be a little neglected. It was about 8 degrees the morning I picked it up. I hit the switch and with just one very small shot of ether it started right up and kept running. Immediately I thought I got a good tractor BUT WOW - IT SMOKES! I let it warm up to where it was hitting on all 6, which took a little while, then let it warm up some more to where I had some heat in the cab and it cleaned up quite a bit but it still smokes (blue)quite a bit more than other 66 series tractors we had but no doubt this one starts better than others we had. Is it bad injectors or what? Itlooks to have a rebuilt fuel pump on it. I assume if the engine was bad it would not start nearly as good as it does. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Rich

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K.B.-826

01-07-2005 15:39:25




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 Re: 966 is a smoker in reply to Rich's966, 01-07-2005 10:05:22  
Don't worry yet, just about any old diesel is going to smoke some idling at 8 degrees. IH diesels are pretty well known for smoking blue when they've been running under a light load at slow speeds. I belive it is caused by the normal amount of oil that gets past the valve guides. It ends up in the exhaust manifold, which doesn't get hot enough to burn the oil off cleanly. Instead, just gets hot enough to cause the oil to smolder and stink and make blue smoke. The engines that really get left idling for long periods of time and never see a heavy load will often times have an oily mess under the manifold.

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Novel Idea Guy

01-07-2005 14:24:41




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 Re: 966 is a smoker in reply to Rich's966, 01-07-2005 10:05:22  
The D360 we put in a tractor last winter hadn't been run in who knows how long. Smoked pretty good. We put 'er on the roller when things thawed out and pounded up and down the meadows in road gear. As she got limbered back up again, it cleared out, and now it's the nicest starting, nicest running old diesel you'd ever want.



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Allan in NE

01-07-2005 11:22:30




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 Re: 966 is a smoker in reply to Rich's966, 01-07-2005 10:05:22  
Hi Rich,

I'm the biggest "Blue Smoke Whiner" there is. I just can't stand that blue smoke coming from an IH tractor.

But, in this instance, I gotta jump the fence.

At 8 degress temp and that old tractor probably hasn't been worked real hard in awhile, I gotta say give it a chance, 'cause 4300 hours isn't even close to what she'll run for longevity.

Big boys tell me that if they start and run, the top end is okay and if it gets to starting hard, that is when you have to start worrying.

Next spring, take it out and work it hard and I'll bet that old sister cleans right up.

Don't forget to check that bottom end. At 4300 hours, you are closing in on IH diesel's weak point, that being the engine bearings @ 5,000 hours. :>)

Allan

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thejdman01

01-07-2005 12:20:44




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 Re: 966 is a smoker in reply to Allan in NE, 01-07-2005 11:22:30  
blue smoke = oil burning
white smoke =unburnt fuel due to a lack of heat (or compression
black smoke=unburnt fuel due to lack of air (turbo restricted air cleaner or turned up pump whatever it is its not enough air for the amt of fuel. just because it starts well doesnt mean yourr rings are fine. the bottom ring is considered an old control ring used to scrape the oil off the cylinder walls. the top 2 rings are considered compression rings. you may very well be getting compression from your top 2 rings but your oil control rings might not be scraping the oil off and thats where your getting the blueish smoke. also could be worn valve guids very unlikely but possible if oils running down to the valves. 856's were know for having extra brittle oil control rings. not a real case or ih fan so dont know about other series and their problems. you say its a bit rough there are also holes in the piston that let oil run down the inside of the piston to cool the piston it runs down the inside of the skirt. possibly your rings could be ok but carbon buildup in those little holes wont let the oil run back down so you are also getting exess built up on the walls. i have rarely but have seen the holes in the piston get plugged w/gunk if the tracoor is neglected. blue is oil burning. white is just unburnt fuel. if the blue goes away after its warm that pry means rings as heat expands and it jsut means when the mtoors cold and rings contracted they arent workign well when it warms up if it goes away i woudlnt worry about doing anythign about it. remember rings pistons and cylider liners and blocks are made out of different composition of metals and expand and heat up at different rates make sure to warm up anything well when its cold esp when you dont plug it in a big diesel block even at 0 may take 15-20 min to get heat to it. also i may note while im ramblin when idling it after about 1-2 min dont let the tractor warm up at idle unless you have great oil pressure at idle. most tractors i have seen that are ih dont build much oil pressure at idle (20 psi or so) and if you kick it up a tad over idle yes i do mean a tad over idle im not saying wide open or fast just bump it off of idle and most ive seen if you bump it off idle will climp to around 35-40 that helps make sure you get oil up to the turbo and top end. my 2 cents hope it helps

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captaink

01-07-2005 11:06:53




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 Re: 966 is a smoker in reply to Rich's966, 01-07-2005 10:05:22  
I have a 966 (well, a severely modified one) with w 436 crank, pistons, and a 1066 turbo on it. Anyway, when it was still a 414, it used to smoke profusely on a cold startup and didn’t start that well below about 32 degrees either unless the engine heater was plugged in. I wouldn’t let bluish smoke at startup worry me if it clears when its working, (not just warmed up, working!)

As far as the internals, the top piston rings are compression rings designed primarily to seal the combustion chamber. If they are doing their job, the engine will start good, perform well, and have little blow by. The lower piston ring is designed primarily for oil control. If it is doing its job, oil will not go past it into the combustion chamber and be burned. Unfortunately, the two are not related except for the fact that they both wear with sue.

In a nut shell, just because it started easy doesn’t mean it will or wont use oil, the blue smoke could be coming from unburned diesel fuel (due to the engine no being warmed up thoroughly or partially clogged injectors) not necessarily oil. However, having an engine that starts when it’s cold is definitely a bonus! :>)

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old

01-07-2005 11:06:45




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 Re: 966 is a smoker in reply to Rich's966, 01-07-2005 10:05:22  
Some one may have turned it up some which could be why it smokes



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xxdonxx

01-07-2005 12:21:19




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 Re: 966 is a smoker in reply to old, 01-07-2005 11:06:45  
old fuel will make them smoke. had one i thought needed rings till put new fuel in it. good luck, don



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