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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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International 404 or 504 Worth?

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DelMN

01-15-2005 06:37:30




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What is the worth of 404's and 504's these days? Gas with PS, 3point.




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CNKS

01-15-2005 08:59:51




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 Re: International 404 or 504 Worth? in reply to DelMN, 01-15-2005 06:37:30  
This is only a guess, as I have never owned one or seen one sell for that matter, so $3000-$4000 depending on condition. I would guess that a 504 would bring more than a 404 in the same condition. The early 404's did not have live pto, I don't know the serial number break.



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Hugh MacKay

01-15-2005 14:31:15




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 Re: International 404 or 504 Worth? in reply to CNKS, 01-15-2005 08:59:51  
CNKS: Are you sure 404 ever had live pto? I don't know as I've never seen one. The reason I raise this question is the IT shop manual No. IH-21, which covers 100, 130, 140, 200, 230, 240, 404 and 2404; makes no mention of live pto for any of those tractors.

It does show a high-low range or foreward-reverse, that goes in the torque tube for the 404 and 2404. Near as I can tell, the rear chassis of the 404 is basically 240 with an enlarged torque tube. I have also been told when you shifted the high-low on 404 into low, it reduced pto speed. I would take from that, if equiped with foreward-reverse and one shifted that to reverse you would also reverse pto.

If one looks at the dismal production numbers on these, both Farmall and Utility, I can't see why IH would have spent many dollars redesigning.

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CNKS

01-16-2005 11:39:09




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 Re: International 404 or 504 Worth? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-15-2005 14:31:15  
Hugh, I have only seen one 404, my dad had a Farmall version after I left the farm, he retired shortly thereafter, I never drove it, thus cannot prove my statement. One of Robert Pripps books states: "The first 404's had ground driven (only operated with the clutch engaged) PTO's-a live PTO was not an option. Bitter complaints from dealers that sales were going to the competition because of this so-called cost saver finally reached IH management. IH engineers designed and fitted a live PTO for production in about 1964 (pretty arbritary-my words). The 404 was built in model years 1961 through 1967." That's the reason for my statement, have no idea as to it's accuracy. IH was facing some very tough competion and losing ground to JD about this time.

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Hugh MacKay

01-16-2005 17:12:50




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 Re: International 404 or 504 Worth? in reply to CNKS, 01-16-2005 11:39:09  
CNKS: As I said before, I know very little about the 404 or 2404. My son picked up this IT manual called IH-21, it indicates at top of page it replaces IH-9, IH-12 and IH-14 and that one should destroy these three. What I find unusual about this book, it is not dated. Thus in relation to dates you are quoting one really has no idea when IH-21 was printed.

I am new to IT manuals, had never seen one in my life until 5 years ago, after coming to YT and seeing print about them. When I farmed I always had operators and service manuals put out when machines were new. When did these IT manuals come about? What is the history of them? I see you can get them for different makes of tractors as well.

The main reason I questioned the live pto was the indication in this IT manual that 404 rearend and transmission are basically 200, 230 and 240 technology. It shows the option high-low gear box bolted to front of transmission. They indicate same gear box is used for the foreward-reverse option. One can see the torque tube would need to be larger than on the 240 to go over this gear box. It also indicates tractor must be split between torque tube and transmission to access this gear box. My thoughts are it would require a major redesign to convert that 200, 230 and 240 rear end and transmission technology to live pto. One must remember also, by early to mid 1960s IH were clearly trying to move all small tractor production to Europe. We started getting the British tractors here in Canada by 1956 or 57. They were diesel, live pto, turned more hp than a 230 and sold for less money. Other than row crop work our small row crop tractors were doomed. You in the US started getting this British technology even though it was assembled at Louisville, using some US manufactured parts. British didn't like our small Farmalls, I guess they are affraid of height.

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CNKS

01-16-2005 18:55:35




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 Re: International 404 or 504 Worth? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-16-2005 17:12:50  
The IT manual ownership is now Primedia, used to be Intertec. My 460, etc one was copyrighted in 1964, oddly the letter series one was copyrighted in 1991. Info at itshopmanuals.com. I consider them a good supplement to the IH manuals, can get more info out of both than either by itself. I agree that to convert the 404 to live pto would take a major modification, so don't know if my post is accurate or not, just reminding people to check things out before they buy, or they might not get what they thought they bought.

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