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Hydraulic Plumbing

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PAULIH300

01-30-2005 13:41:05




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My 300U with U-34 loader has a screwed up plumbing situation with the lift,dump valves.The lift lever is on the outside and lifts when pulled back.The dump valve is on the inside and dumps when backward and raises when forward.These are reversed from what I read.The lift is supposed to be inside and the dump is outside,with the forward dump position to dump and rearward to raise.The lift should lift forward and drop rearward.Here's the funny part.....the other port on the lift valve has a hose crossing over to the other side of the reservoir and plumbs into the bottom of the reservoir.They have the valve set to Dual Action even though the lift cylinders are Single Action.The engine labors when you drop the bucket (should be freewheeling).What did these former knuckleheads do?? (setting the valve to Single Action wont lift the bucket/arms).

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Quebec Red

01-31-2005 18:26:15




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to PAULIH300, 01-30-2005 13:41:05  
A number of years ago (CRS again) I took in trade a 300 utility with a 34U loader and the valves were hooked up as you describe. This afternoon I contacted an old IH mechanic who explained to me that this was the way IH said to hook up the lines. However your valve should be set for single or double action as the cylinder dictates. He also said to flush the oil system and screen and to put in HY-TRAN oil-well worth the extra few dollars. I agree. Hope this helps rather than confuses you. Question not answered was why.

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EricB

01-31-2005 08:38:58




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to PAULIH300, 01-30-2005 13:41:05  
Paul
I read through and saw another posting you had with power stering parts from the same machine which you bought as a manual steering. Sounds like this guy may have been very busy with the hydraulics on your 300. At this point you probably should suspect everything.



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EricB

01-31-2005 07:38:52




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to PAULIH300, 01-30-2005 13:41:05  
Paul: I agree with CNKS! I'm confused!

So the dual action cylinder works fine, but its backwards. Thats not a problem but you say the single is where the problem is. If you reverse the feed and return lines so the dual action works correctly then you have no response from the single action control. At least thats what I think you said.
I don't have the same machine but I do run dual and single action cylinders. I had to change the inside core of one controler to a "single action" control. otherwise you are blocking your return flow and seizing up.
Perhaps whoever worked on it thought you'd be using a dual action cylinder. If you switch the hoses so the dump works off the other controler and vise versa do you have the same problem? If so I would say the controller is not set up for a single action cylinder.

Just my 2 cents worth

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CNKS

01-31-2005 08:46:20




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to EricB, 01-31-2005 07:38:52  
The control valves on the 300/350U, as well as my 460U, and the row crop versions of the 300-460 can be set to single or double acting -- Paul either has something plugged, or the whole thing is plumbed wrong.



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CNKS

01-30-2005 14:34:39




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to PAULIH300, 01-30-2005 13:41:05  
I'm not the loader expert, but you can reverse the hoses so that back is up and forward is down, I don't think the system cares, at least that's the way it is on systems that don't have 1 or 2 way valves. The hose going to the reservoir sounds like the way that you can get 2 way hyd on a letter series, which were one way without the optional remote valve -- you used 2 way cylinders, and got 2 way operation by running a hose from the aftermarket spool valve to the reservoir -- don't have a clue as to why yours would be set up like that. Your cylinders are one way -- that is only one hose going to the cylinder? I don't know how you can get 2 way operation with only one hose.

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PAULIH300

01-30-2005 18:27:36




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to CNKS, 01-30-2005 14:34:39  
Question I would have on the inner/outer HT valve deal....wouldnt the inner valve have a better supply of fluid as compared to the outer? As the lift cylinders have a hungry appetite for fluid volume,you'd think the inner valve would be better served feeding them as opposed to the outer? The dump cylinder (inner) works excellently,actually capable of lifting the front of the tractor off the ground.The lift (outer) valve seems doggy in comparision.Of course its feeding huge cylinders compared to the small single one.

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PAULIH300

01-30-2005 14:41:16




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to CNKS, 01-30-2005 14:34:39  
One hose on the valve goes to the lift cylinders.The other crosses the seat platform and goes under the reservoir on the left side.My guess is on the downstroke its pressurizing the reservior (??).



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CNKS

01-30-2005 17:40:29




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to PAULIH300, 01-30-2005 14:41:16  
I don't think it should be hooked up that way -- slowly grasping what you have. I don't think it matters whether there is a loader or some other mounted, or trailing implement, for that matter. In the picture in your latest post, the cylinders are one way, as you indicated. Thus, IMO, the hoses from both cylinders need to be attached together with a tee, with the resulting single hose plugged into the up outlet of one of the remotes, with the valve set on one way. Attach the tilt cylinder (one cylinder?) hose to the up outlet of the 2nd remote, and set the valve to one way, unless that is a 2 way cylinder. If the valve you are referring to is indeed the valve that sets one or two way, then you have to set it on one way, or you will get return flow to the reservoir, which you do not need unless you have 2 way cylinders. You said in your original post that the bucket does not lift with it set on single action. That I don't understand. Not being familiar with the system on the 300U, and not using the remotes on my 460U before taking it apart, I don't know anything else. Hopefully someone that knows what they are talking about will answer before too long.

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PAULIH300

01-30-2005 18:20:54




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to CNKS, 01-30-2005 17:40:29  
The dump cylinder is Dual Acting,the Lift cylinders are Single Acting.They have the inner valve set up for D on the dump bucket and it works...although its theoretically on the wrong valve and the hoses are reversed.The lift HT Valve is set to D although the cylinders are Single Acting.They have the lift hose on the rear port and the hose that crosses over to the reservior (?)in the front.The outer valve is leaking fluid somewhat from the lever seal.I think that "return" hose is partly responsible for that.The engine labors on the downstroke and I dont think thats supposed to.Sounds like its trying to push fluid where it doesnt belong

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Dave D

01-31-2005 20:19:06




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to PAULIH300, 01-30-2005 18:20:54  
Paul, for what it's worth, my 240U with a Superior loader and Husco controller also labors on the downstroke. The loader runs off a Charlyn (?) pump in front of the grill. The outboard lever powers the lift (back is up) and the inboard lever the dump (forward is dump). -- Dave D



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CNKS

01-30-2005 19:14:40




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to PAULIH300, 01-30-2005 18:20:54  
I'm getting more confused -- didn't think that was possible. Lets start over--you have 2 remotes, the one that tilts the bucket has a 2-way cylinder, 2 hoses. I assume the remotes have the factory "blocks or sockets" that you plug hoses into. Just swap the hoses on the tilt remote, and back is up forward is down, if that's the way you want it. On the port that lifts the bucket, bucket has one way cylinders: "the lift hose is on the rear port, the hose that crosses over is connected to the front". You mean that the lift hose is plugged in to a quick disconnect, or to one port in the block? What is the crossing hose connected to -- you say "front" that tells me it is connected to the valve housing, not the other port in the block (or the other quick disconnect), in which case the valve should bleed off the pressure when in the single position, provided it returns to the right place in the reservoir, also provided it is connected to the right place in the valve body. If it is plugged into the other port of the block, or you have quick disconnects that are for some reason separated (but work off the same valve), that is your problem -- unplug it. If the latter is the case, that is two quick disconnects connected to the same valve, with the lift hose in one and the return hose in the other, that return hose has to come out, and the valve set to single acting -- I think.

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PAULIH300

01-30-2005 19:25:09




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to CNKS, 01-30-2005 19:14:40  
All the loader hoses connect to a junction box bolted to the side of the chassis.The only QDs are on the dump piston hoses (which double as log splitter powering hoses when swapped to the rear).
I think I will remove that crossover hose and plug the HT port and see what happens. (oh and shift to S too).
This fitting at the reservoir has to be factory,I cant imagine them drilling one out.Its on the left and is low on the reservoir.Maybe they thought that doing this would provide the lift cylinders with 2 sources of fluid (?) but that makes no sense.When the lever is powering upward,the other side of the valve (when on D)is bleeding off fluid.When the lever is "lowering" the 2nd line is powered and the lift cylinders are bleeding off.Confusing....

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CNKS

01-30-2005 19:33:11




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to PAULIH300, 01-30-2005 19:25:09  
Let us know what you find -- I probably won't be back on until tommorrow sometime -- perhaps someone else will bail me out before then.



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PAULIH300

01-30-2005 19:39:22




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to CNKS, 01-30-2005 19:33:11  
Well,this wont happen til next weekend at the earliest.....so,you wont miss a thing! lol
I cant believe people's crazy actions...even 50 years ago.This rig was purchased new with the U34 attachment.So an IH dealer plumbed this thing originally,and by the look of some of the hoses when I got it,they were nearly original.That means some tech got all confused and started hooking hoses anywhere.Unless the new owner wanted it that way....

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PAULIH300

01-30-2005 14:40:37




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to CNKS, 01-30-2005 14:34:39  
One hose on the valve goes to the lift cylinders.The other crosses the seat platform and goes under the reservoir on the left side.My guess is on the downstroke its pressurizing the reservior (??).



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PAULIH300

01-30-2005 14:39:59




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 Re: Hydraulic Plumbing in reply to CNKS, 01-30-2005 14:34:39  
One hose on the valve goes to the lift cylinders.The other crosses the seat platform and goes under the reservoir on the left side.My guess is on the downstroke its pressurizing the reservior (??).



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