Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Can you stand another oil pump question?

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
ddg

02-05-2005 09:36:50




Report to Moderator

I have my early Super A oil pump out on the bench. I straightened & sanded the cover to fit the pump housing again, and have one new thin gasket/shim installed. When I hold the pump up, and spin it by hand, the gears still just contack the cover. Should I use it like that, or shim the cover away from the gears with another gasket or two? Is it necessary to use a sealer on the gaskets?




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Irv

02-06-2005 00:44:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Can you stand another oil pump question? in reply to ddg, 02-05-2005 09:36:50  
The pump, in operation will move the gears up on thier shafts, and you will see witness marks on the cover. I would not just sand this cover flat. You need it FLAT, .001 or .002 too much headspace will adversely affect your pressure. A surface grinder works well. The gears are much harder than the pump cover, but you should also knock off any sharp wear points. The gears should turn freely. Irv

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ddg

02-06-2005 06:37:26




Report to Moderator
 Re: Can you stand another oil pump question? in reply to Irv, 02-06-2005 00:44:45  

When I took it apart, the cover plate was warped in several directions. The only contact places it had left were at the bolt holes. It looked like it was bulged out between the holes. I was able go flatten it out with a copper hammer, then get it smooth by sanding against a glass plate. The gears had both contacted the plate. What makes them warp like that? Is it the weight of the shaft & gears bouncing against the cover, or is it years of pressure from cold starts with thick oil?

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
scott2

02-07-2005 13:00:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Can you stand another oil pump question? in reply to ddg, 02-06-2005 06:37:26  
Ya know I was in the bottom of my sa the other day and didnt even think to look at the pump, just replaced the pan gasket. I am looking at a service manual now and that cover looks like its a cast unit. I cant think for the life of me that could get warped. If its cast, it would break first unless it was a lousy casting to begin with. I would replace it to be on the safe side or at least go to the dealer and look at a new one to see what I was up against. Also I forgot to mention that the clearance between the gear teeth and the housing its self are critical for good oil pressure as well.

Specs for sa: body to gear running clearance .0053-.0083"

End clearance .0035-,006"

They dont list a backlash but I suspect the min. should be .003"+. You probably have more like .006-.010.

If you keep the numbers on the clearance in the range that I gave you, you shouldnt have any problems getting pressure. I think the pump gasket should be about as thin as celophane and I never used sealer but then again I had perfectly flat surfaces. I still wouldnt use sealer, even if I was throwing it back together. Might try hi tack but there just aint supposed to be none there. Remember the clearance issue??

Post back if I can mess you up anymore.

scott#2

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
scott#2

02-05-2005 15:50:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: Can you stand another oil pump question? in reply to ddg, 02-05-2005 09:36:50  
Actually in the engines I have ever rebuilt, I always paid strict attention to the oil pump... (the heart of the enging)

Like all "precision" assemplies, oil pumps have their "tolerances" too.

Oil pressure is lost if the gear/cover clearance is too much. This is because oil is being forced, in volume, by the teeth or rotor of the pump. It cant develop as good a hydraulic vacume, to draw oil (when air can slide by), at the rate it should. Same token on the gear backlash. The correct backlash gives greater oil moving capacity. It can create better vacume if there is a tighter clearance.

So in a way you can say gears can make pressure and gear/cover clearance can take it away.

I dont know what the specs are for the sa pump but in air cooled continental aircraft engines and alike, Porsche, etc., its quite small. Usually arouund .0015 and less and al little more for the teeth clearance. Get some numbers and check it over if you want it as good as posible.

scott#2

Just my half cracked view.

PS Ive even gone as far as swapping different pump cofigurations out on test engines and have documented results in this area.

And I will say this. Very rarely have i received a new pump that wasnt as good as it should have been. Alot arent even at the spec that the manufacturer states. Sometimes they are worse to straighten out than old ones.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CNKS

02-06-2005 12:52:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: Can you stand another oil pump question? in reply to scott#2, 02-05-2005 15:50:42  
Scott#2 -- That's not a half-cracked view, sounds like a good explanation. I've never fully understood how a gear pump worked, or why they fail. The gear to cover clearance makes sense to me, and is also the reason that a specific number of gaskets are not specified, they are used to set the clearance.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

02-05-2005 10:40:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: Can you stand another oil pump question? in reply to ddg, 02-05-2005 09:36:50  
If the pump turns freely by hand, I would NOT shim it anymore. Some good gasket sealer on one side of the gaskets MAY help keep it from blowing out from oil pressure, yet will allow easy disassembly, if needed, in the future.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JOSSETTE

02-05-2005 11:12:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: Can you stand another oil pump question? in reply to Bob, 02-05-2005 10:40:41  
i agree with that. the oil will probably keep the gear off the housing when it is under pressure if you can spin it by hand freely.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy