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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running

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Old_Farmall_560

02-05-2005 13:52:49




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Help! I just reworked the head on my 560 LP and now whenever I try to start the tractor, the starter will not shut off even by releasing the push-button start switch or by turning the key off. The only way I can get the starter to quit spinning the engine is to disconnect the battery. I"ve checked the dashboard starter switch and it checks okay. It seems likely that, although I just had the starter rebuilt, the Bendix is sticking but is there a way to check it? Any assistance will be appreciated.

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CityKid

08-27-2005 07:32:40




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-05-2005 13:52:49  
I'm responding to this old thread because I have a similar problem with a Ford 8N that I'm hoping someone can help me with.



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Old_Farmall_560

03-21-2005 16:37:09




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-05-2005 13:52:49  
To All: See solution to this problem under Farmall discussion topic called "How many spacers on starter armiture."



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JOSSETTE

02-12-2005 21:20:19




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-05-2005 13:52:49  
put a shim (washer for now) between the starter and the bell housing... it should work fine....getting hung up in the flywheel.....



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Old_Farmall_560

03-05-2005 10:09:30




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-12-2005 21:20:19  
I suppose it"s time for an update on the starter problem, which by the way has not changed. So far I have charged the battery, checked the push button starter switch, replaced the battery ground cable and cleaned the area where it bolts to the tractor as well as at the battery, cleaned and lightly oiled the starter drive, placed washers behind the starter to shim it, removed the dash and cleaned the connections and grounding point under the dash, and replaced the solenoid. The starter still continues to stay engaged with the engine and spinning it after the push button is released and the key is turned off. I decided against a new starter drive when shimming the starter did not seem to work but have not totally ruled it out. This problem has me really bumfuzzled but I have to believe that the real clue is that this problem started right after I did the head work. Right now I pursuing a possible frayed wire that may have gotten pushed against something else and continues to supply current to the solenoid once the starting sequence is initiated. I"ll be darned if I can see anything though. Anyhow I"m continuing to work the problem.

Ron

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El Toro

02-06-2005 04:21:05




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-05-2005 13:52:49  
I think you're still having voltage applied to the starter solenoid after you release the starter switch. There's voltage at the starter all of the time. Try shorting across the solenoid with a screwdriver to start the engine with the ignition switch off. If it keeps cranking your solenoid is bad. If it stops cranking, voltage is being applied to the solenoid
probably from a defective push button. Hal

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Hugh MacKay

02-06-2005 02:24:01




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-05-2005 13:52:49  
Does the starter actually keep spinning from battery power, or is it just the mechanical linkage from solinoid keeping drive engaged, thus tractor engine is turning the starter. I had this happen once with my 560 diesel. This happened 35 years ago thus my memory is a bit rusty, but I believe the diesel has a mechanical lever connecting solinoid to starter drive. In my case it was that lever jambing mechanically and not power keeping starter drive engaged, thus engine was just spinning the starter.

I'm not sure the gas versions of the 560 use the same starter and solinoid, but if you can see a external mechanical lever at end of solinoid going down into starter, just bump starter enough to see if that lever releases. It may be as simple as some lubrication on the lever. Try starting the tractor and mechanically releasing drive with a screwdriver. Be careful not to get screwdriver into electrical terminals.

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JOSSETTE

02-05-2005 14:06:56




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-05-2005 13:52:49  
if there is a solonoid on the starter i would start there. if not the button is probably sticking by magnetic force and it goes back when the field is cancelled. turn switch on and jump the starter at the relay. if the starter stops after starting the button is faulty. if the starter keeps going you might have a weak or damaged drive and it is hanging up on the flywheel. it just might need a shim to help it come back. make sure the ground cable is good and secure!!!!

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Old_Farmall_560

02-07-2005 12:20:40




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-05-2005 14:06:56  
I looked at the starter a bit more this morning and here's more information.

The problem of course is that with the key on, the starter will engage the engine normally but will not stop when the button is released.

With the key off or on, and when the starter is "jumped" with a screwdriver at the solenoid, the starter spins but does not engage the engine. When jumper is removed, starter ceases to spin.

With the key on, but with push-button start switch not depressed, there is a small amount of voltage (checked with a test light) at the solenoid on the "R" terminal but nothing on the "S" terminal. With key off, no voltage is detected at either terminal.

I have not moved any wires since reinstalling a rebuilt starter several months ago and have started the tractor numerous times since then. This problem started after reinstalling a reworked head and after attempting to start the tractor several times. At first, the starter would shut off normally when the push button starter switch was released, then after a few tries, the problem of the starter continuing to run started.

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JOSSETTE

02-07-2005 13:32:47




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-07-2005 12:20:40  
everything sounds good on the solonoid and the electrical is acting wright. the next thing is to take the starter to the shop that rebuilt it and have them spin it. you may have melted something when you were cranking. no cost to spin it. if that checks to be ok than i have to get my own electricity in my brain going.

if it is do-able or if you have already. check the battery volts and put new thicker cables on. bigger the better and grind a spot for the neg.

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JOSSETTE

02-12-2005 20:59:41




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-07-2005 13:32:47  
try putting a small shim in each hole in between the starter and the bell housing. the drive might be sitting in there to far and hanging up. i think a washer will be to much but you can try that for now and see if it goes back. i believe i mentioned this on my first posting. just givin you crap, but i think i did..... ..



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Old_Farmall_560

02-13-2005 13:20:14




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-12-2005 20:59:41  
Jossette, I have to apologize as I did not see your two posts on Saturday about shimming the starter. I did try to loosen the bolts on the starter and see if the starter drive would withdraw from the flywheel during a starting cycle. It did not help. However, I was afraid to loosen the bolts too much as I did not want the starter to become too badly missaligned. I"ve also taken the starter apart and cleaned the starter drive in gasoline and then lightly oiled it with WD-40. It was a little dirty but not excessively. This also did not help. Like the ring gear, the starter drive did not appear to be excessively worn but I"m sure this can be misleading to the unexperienced eye. In short, I am leaning toward the starter drive as the culprit. The drawback spring in the solenoid seems fairly strong and the solenoid seems to doing what it is supposed to do. It seems possible that the new armature and brushes in the starter when it was rebuilt has put added strain on the old drive causing it to fail. I will be ordering a rebuilt starter drive in the morning and we"ll see what this does. I have searched these forums numerous times and my problem seems to be a somewhat unique one. When I get it resolved the solution may help someone else.

In my searches I did find a wiring diagram for a 560 among Robert Melville"s Farmall schematics below. If the mechanical fixes do not work, I guess I will fall back to the possibility of an electrical problem.

Ron

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Old_Farmall_560

02-12-2005 16:27:28




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-07-2005 13:32:47  
Here's more information. I removed the starter and sat it on top of the tractor with a jumper cable for a ground. I turned the ignition key on and pushed the start button and the starter seemed to work perfectly. When the starter button was pushed, the bendix spun outward, and when the button was released the bendix withdrew and the starter stopped. Could this all simply be a weak bendix? The ring gear appears to have little wear.

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Old_Farmall_560

02-07-2005 14:04:26




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-07-2005 13:32:47  
Thanks. I just tried to call the fellow who worked on the starter but got a disconnected number. He is a local shop in a town of 4700 people and he may have retired since I saw him. I lost my good local engine mechanic last year to retirement.

I let you know how this all develops. And thanks again for your help.



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JOSSETTE

02-07-2005 14:39:03




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-07-2005 14:04:26  
napa and carquest should be able to spin it for little to nothing. call the pauto parts stores and see if they can spin it.



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Old_Farmall_560

02-12-2005 09:58:02




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-07-2005 14:39:03  
I had the starter and solenoid checked out and they checked okay. The mechanic mentioned, as have some here, that it sounds like a bad ground somewhere. Since then I have repaired a loose ground battery connection on the ground cable and sanded and cleaned the spot where the cable grounds to the tractor's frame but with no luck. Next I checked the keyed ignition switch with an Ohms meter to make sure the power was being cut when the switch was turned off and it checked okay. Then, to see if the push-button starter switch was sticking, I removed the flexible rubber cover on the switch and used a screwdriver to simply short out across the two poles. The starter again spun the engine but again would not release until the battery cable was removed. I am now at a loss where to go from here except to continue to hunt down and clean grounds and connnections. The odd thing here is that, except for plug wires, I did not remove any wiring when I R&Red the head.

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Old_Farmall_560

02-07-2005 14:54:21




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-07-2005 14:39:03  
Great reminder! By chance we have a NAPA dealer here in Muleshoe, TX who happens to be the Case dealership. I had better get off the internet now and go get the starter off tonight. I'm really eager to see how the old girl is going to run with more head compression.



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JOSSETTE

02-07-2005 15:01:56




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-07-2005 14:54:21  
you wont believe the power>>



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Old_Farmall_560

02-05-2005 18:06:16




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-05-2005 14:06:56  
Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, the starter has the solenoid sitting on top of it. This next week I will check it out, as well as the button, and get back. Earlier today the starter was working fine, then as I used it several times, it began to stay on. Regarding the starter button, the only thing electrical I have done recently is to remove the positive cable from the battery while I had the head off. The button actually seems somewhat new with the weatherproof rubber cover still in very good condition. The tractor belonged to my late father-in-law and it sit outside for the past many years.

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JOSSETTE

02-05-2005 19:01:59




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to Old_Farmall_560, 02-05-2005 18:06:16  
sounds like a wire maybe fraid also and grounding out the starter wire.. something is hooked up wrong--faulty switch and or relay or a bad hot wire. once again make sure the ground cable is good and secure. a lot of problems start right there.



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Dave Wilguess

02-05-2005 20:41:38




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 Re: Farmall 560 Starter Keeps Running in reply to JOSSETTE, 02-05-2005 19:01:59  
I will suggest you check you battery first with a soilnoid mounted starter if the battry gets low or is getting bad it will cause the soilniod to hang in if the battery is good and has a full charge then have the feilds checked in the starter.
Dave



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