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Old vs. New tractors

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farmallman

02-09-2005 17:45:22

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I don"t know what is better. I like the new because they have 4x4 and all the other benifits. They are stronger and can pull more. But they also break more. Then the old. They are better built. Altho they all don"t have 4x4 and diff lock, etc., they are better in a way. They are easier to fix, anyone can fix them(with out the computer stuff), young or old. Sometimes, they can be more reliable. What do u guys think and did i miss anything?

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farmalljim10

02-10-2005 05:42:07

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to farmallman, 02-09-2005 17:45:22

Lets look at the weight besides the horspower the new ones are all a lot lighter than the old ones and in tractors that is what gears are for they used to ballast a model H up to the weight of a M and really work them and yes abuse them also..But all the gears were much wider and heavier built so you could really work them 30 horse power tractors used to weigh 4000 lbs not 2000 lbs like now..Without the weight no traction ,no matter how many wheel drive you have. But boy Dif. lock is nice when you need it..

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Lance R.

02-10-2005 05:36:58

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to farmallman, 02-09-2005 17:45:22

Even after Allan totally restores his 966 to like new condition he won't have near the $$$$ spent for an equally powerful new tractor. The old ones hold their value and and cost less to fix. If you buy a new tractor you better have the acres to support that purchase. How much per acre is it costing you and is there interest to pay for a loan or interest you get paid for the money you didn't have to spend. You need to justify the purchase.

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Allan in NE

02-10-2005 05:55:41

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to Lance R., 02-10-2005 05:36:58

Mornin',

Well, in fairness to the guys who are playin' the farmin' game for real, they do indeed have a point.

To me, these old tractors are just toys, but to them tractors are tools and they just cannot be "down" for repairs for any reason.

When I quit farming, I was running 7 farms and the annual budget would bounce around the $200K mark. Guys tell me that now, they are playing with figures that I can't even get my head around.

With that kind of money, downtime is a major expense and I can certainly understand where they would want brand new equipment.

My ol' pee brain won't even go to the sandbox where these guys are playin' nowadays. :>)

Allan

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Kelly C

02-10-2005 06:58:53

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to Allan in NE, 02-10-2005 05:55:41

From what I have gleened so far. I agree with you on this. For full time Farmers leasing new equipment and deducting the total cost of the equipment is better way to go. If your big enough to do that.

I do have a guy working for me that just purchased a new JD 4wd and he does 240 acres and some cattle.
He said he did it because he cant afford to be down at all. With him and his wife both working outside the Farm time is a real issue.
I also agree with that as I find time a big issue for me also. But I think he could have been better served by a back up tractor to use when the other needs repairs.
Heck you can have 2 pretty good IH tractors for $20,000 compared to one new one for $45,000

I use the back up plan for my hobby haying. a 400 and a 460. cost about 8,000 total. Thats the cost after I get them where I want them.
When I get bigger I then will add a bigger tractor and remove the 460.
I dont really concider the cost of a old tractor into the figures at all. Depreciation on these was done years ago. So a 460 I purchased for $3500 3 years ago will still bring $3500 when I sell it. The real cost of using this stuff is the upkeep. Can be quite a bit depending on the condition when you get it. But I suspect that is still quite a bit less than interest on a loan or depriation you take on a newer one.

I understand what I do may not be relitive to this conversation though. I keep one toe in and a foot out. That way if I get sick of it I can get out with out loosing any thing.

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greywynd

02-11-2005 08:11:36

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to Kelly C, 02-10-2005 06:58:53

I guess it all depends on who you are and how you go about things. I sometimes run a John Deere 7420 plowing snow for a local 'farmer'. Yes, he is a farmer in his late 40's?, his father still farms, as well as his 2 brothers, also most of the next generation is getting into it now too. Being 'aggressive' and business savy(IMO), they keep expanding the operation. I really have no idea how much land they own/lease/farm, I've heard that they own 2-3000 acres among the family members, they also rent/lease a lot more. As the farming got bigger, they also started into trucks, they now have a small fleet of highway trucks, with it's own dispatcher etc. Number of years ago, they got the contract from the local city for spreading the 'manure' sludge from the treatment plant. Eventually, they started an 'environmental' division, that spreads manure for local farmers, for the city, whatever. When they wanted to take out some fence bottom years ago, they started buying dozers and excavators. Last year another 'division' (I think ran by one of the older 'next generation') built a golf course. A lot of these projects are turned into partnerships, so that they have a return for years to come. I really have no idea how big that they have become. I know the farm tractors are mounted with snow plows to do snow removal contracts. When we were out yesterday, there were at least 6 tractors, with the 7420 I ran being one of the smaller ones. There's a 14' front blade on it, and a 12' rear blade on it. The larger side there's 2 wheel loaders, one with a 22' blade, one has a 24'. I understand that just one of the snow contracts are worth 70K a year, and that's only one of 25? I also hear that his liability insurance for the snow removal is 40K a year....

These guys just look at it as an extension of the farm. As the bigger cities get closer, they are taking advantage by hiring out to the big city. Personally, I wouldn't even want to thing about the stress etc. that these guys endure.

I still like my 541 offset Ford for plowing snow at home to boot!

Mark

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old

02-09-2005 19:49:34

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to farmallman, 02-09-2005 17:45:22

I wouldn't have any of them made after say around 1975. Why well the old ones people took pride in what they built now days they don't. I have a 1935 tractor that I'd put side by side with any tractor of the same HP and I'll bet it will keep going more hours then a newer one with less fix time.

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PA in west NE.

02-09-2005 19:11:35

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to farmallman, 02-09-2005 17:45:22

The old tractors are great for small farms. Try farming 3000 to 4000 acres with the old ones and you will soon be driving the newer ones. The same way with combines one new one can do the work of three built 10 years ago.

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Allan in NE

02-09-2005 19:36:46

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to PA in west NE. , 02-09-2005 19:11:35

PA,

That reminds me of a neighbor I had one time. I asked him just how much dog-goned land he owned, anyway.

He looked and me and smiled. "I don't own any; it owns me".

Allan

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GGS

02-09-2005 19:01:05

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to farmallman, 02-09-2005 17:45:22

I'll stake my life on the old ones any day. Ya if you got the money go for it but if $$$ is tight go with the tried and true!! Yes after you purchase that $1500 M and put a few thousand into it to get it all brought back up to like new you ask-- was it worth it??? ----- --YES!! Cause you'll have more HP per dollar saved and get another fifty years and the cycle will start all over. I guess thats enough from my jaws. GOOD LUCK!!!!

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OliverGuy

02-09-2005 18:32:58

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to farmallman, 02-09-2005 17:45:22

jonesy's right on. I tried working our small field with our new Kubota 5030 and after three rounds decided to give my 53-yr old M a shot. The M had the Kubota beat hands down. I thought 4WD would trump my M, but the ole M had her whipped!

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PAULIH300

02-09-2005 18:25:19

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to farmallman, 02-09-2005 17:45:22

I dont think todays tractors are going to last 50 years.Whereas yesterdays tractors have,and will probably be still alive and running in another 50.Hows that for value? Buy a new tractor in the 50s and still own it some 100 years later? Of course,it wouldnt be the original owner.....
Just like todays trucks.....will any of them be alive in 25-30 years? I dont think so.If only the buyers of 1960s/1970s trucks knew how long they would last,they could have stocked up and bought a couple to last a lifetime!

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Brian in NY

02-10-2005 05:47:48

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to PAULIH300, 02-09-2005 18:25:19

While I agree with the thought that older tractors are far superior in craftsmanship, serviceability, etc...I have to disagree with your opinion on older trucks being better. Todays are built more solidly (hydroformed frame rails, more resistant to corrosion, more precise machining on powertrain components) than the oldies...while I love the older ones for their simplicity, if I was a betting man and had two brand new trucks side by side, I would bet my money on the 2005 silverado to outlast the 1970 Chevy any day of the week. Just my .02.

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PAULIH300

02-10-2005 14:33:38

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to Brian in NY, 02-10-2005 05:47:48

When the computer goes out,or an electronic transfer case breaks out of warranty...thats enough to send it to the junker alone.Justify spending thousands on a ...say 10 year old rusty truck.
Now take a 70s 4x4 with NP205 cast iron transfer case,Dana 44,Ford 9" rear..... .all steel and no aluminum,or torsion bars,or plastic.
For my money the best trucks ever made were 1978-1979 Ford F series and Broncos.Their climbing resale value proves,they are in demand.A 05 Silverado will only depreciate over the next 20 years.And heaven forbid if something expensive breaks....

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Brian in NY

02-11-2005 10:37:18

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to PAULIH300, 02-10-2005 14:33:38

I guess we will have to agree to disagree...I haved owned both newer and older trucks, and although there are some gizmos on the new ones that can be expensive to repair, the repairs are generally very simple (plug in a new sensor, or bolt in a new ecm, etc). As time goes by, the parts will be much cheaper as well. Like anything, yes the 2005 Chevy will depreciate right off the bat....but in 30 years its value will be climbing back up. I guess we will have to wait 25-30 years to find out if the new trucks have long term reliability issues.

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jonesy

02-09-2005 18:23:54

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to farmallman, 02-09-2005 17:45:22

We have a 2004 Kubota 50hp 5030lc, ac,cab, hydrosat drive ect, ect VERY NICE..... ....BUT!! Along with the $30,000 price tag OUCH!! it will by no means out pull a Super M with a 3 bottom plow. Old school wins that one.

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Allan in NE

02-09-2005 17:56:29

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to farmallman, 02-09-2005 17:45:22

Yes,

You missed the money issue. Betcha more new tractors are leased than actually bought.

Allan

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farmallman

02-09-2005 20:10:22

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to Allan in NE, 02-09-2005 17:56:29

Thanks
I forgot about the price difference. I can afford a old tractor

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RustyFarmall

02-09-2005 18:32:29

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Re: Old vs. New tractors in reply to Allan in NE, 02-09-2005 17:56:29

Allan, I think you are right, if it wasn't for the credit, lease, and other incentive plans offered by the manufacturers we would probably see a lot more of the old iron still being used.

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