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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Sandblasting?

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spray004

02-25-2005 08:20:35




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What is the best way to remove years of rust and gunk from the entire tractor? I plan on repainting a Cub, B & Super C. The engines all run good. I plan on removing the body panels and having them cleaned up and painted, but what about the rest of the tractor? I've considered buying a professional sand blaster to do all of them plus the equipment that goes along with them. Would it be easier or better to have someone else do it? Also in regards to paint, where is a good place to find matching paint? At the local Tractor Supply, they have "tractor paint". I have sprayed this before, but I wasnt looking for anything nice at the time. For a nice job is this a good paint or just something good for equipment.

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greywynd

02-26-2005 11:19:16




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 Re: Sandblasting/Pressure Washing in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
I know here in my part of ontario, there are a lot of mobile wash guys. A friend of mine uses one of these guys to wash heavy equipment before he paints them. Some of them have special degreasers that they can use in addition to just regular soap and water. One of the things with these guys is that they all seem to have hot water heaters onboard, and a lot more pressure than most home owner type pressure washers. I had one wash the steel on our horse barn before repainting a couple years back, and he was peeling off most of the loose paint. a bit of time with a wire brush and I was ready to start spraying.

Mark

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CNKS

02-25-2005 18:52:58




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
As is the usual answer to this often asked question, it depends on who answers. To do a good job, the tractor has to be disassembled. You can sandblast the parts you take off, including the wheels, rims, front bolster, brake and clutch pedals etc. You can do the sheet metal if you are careful. Any place that you can stay away from bearings and seals. Tape any exposed machined surfaces and all openings. Oven cleaner, lye gravy, paint stripper, whatever, on the chassis. What I seldom see mentioned is that on the cast, most people say use oven cleaner, lye gravy, etc, pressure wash and paint. The cast is no different than any other surface. It's rough surface does not mean it is ready to paint. It needs to be etched. This can be done to a degree with the angle grinder Allan(NE) shows, but for the odd shaped areas you will also need various other brushes on a drill. A Needle scaler is also helpful for the tight places. In any case, one operation with any tool will not do the whole job, it is quite simply a LOT of work using mutiple tools to do it right. The dried grease is no problem compared to removing all the paint and rust. The electrolysis may work for small parts, (IMO they still need to be etched), but I wouldn't put an assembled engine in there. Perhaps if you are overhauling it anyway, and have an empty block. Remember that electrolysis does not prevent rust, it causes it, so it has to be dried immediately. And you still need to etch the metal before painting. The etching can be done with rust preventative phosphoric acid products such as Picklex 20; I do not use rust converters such as POR 15, as I much prefer to paint clean, bare metal. Any phosphoric acid product will enter the pores of the cast, I'm not saying you necessarily have to remove it, but I use soap and water, followed by a repeated applications of a an automotive wax and grease remover, (I don't give it a chance to rust) until the rags come back clean. There simply is no easy way to do it.

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Marlin M '51

02-26-2005 13:49:18




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to CNKS, 02-25-2005 18:52:58  
When you refer to "etching" are you talking about creating a rough surface for better paint adhesion, similar to sanding a finish before applying a second coat? Once you"ve degreased and etched the cast surface, do you get better paint adhesion if you apply the new primer/paint process to bare metal rather than intact original coatings?



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CNKS

02-26-2005 14:19:28




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to Marlin M '51, 02-26-2005 13:49:18  
Etching can be done by sanding, or you can use a phosphoric acid treatment -- cast is hard to sand, so I wire brush it. Wire brushes may leave too smooth a surface, but I have had no problems, yet. Nothing wrong with applying primer to old coatings, but the problem is most tractors have already been painted at least once, Usually a hurry up job, and the old finish is probably not near as good as it is on a car or truck. You don't know what the previous owner did. But, if you think it is ok you can sand it and seal it with epoxy primer before topcoating. I always go the bare metal route, for the above reasons. Most modern topcoats are not sanded between coats, unless you are talking about color sanding a rough new finish (where you messed up) and either recoating or buffing it out. Surfacers are sanded between coats to provide a smooth finish, and to cover scratches that occurred when going to bare metal. 320 to 400 grit is usually used on surfacer, 1000 to 2000 grit when color sanding new topcoats. If you are using epoxy primer on bare sheet metal, the bare metal is usually sanded with 180 grit to assure adhesion of the epoxy, then the the epoxy is coated with surfacer and sanded with 400 grit as above.

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Nebraska Cowman

02-25-2005 18:19:34




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
I don't have a pressure washer (it's on my wish list but you know how that goes) I bought one of those little air guns that you can inject liquid with and use kerosene and elbow grease. follow up with degreaser and lots of water. But don't put simple-green through the air blaster gun unless you wear a resporator, it will make you bad sick and you won't evem be able to stand the smell of simple-green for several yaers.

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Cliff Neubauer

02-25-2005 17:27:46




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
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I like to use the oven cleaner and a power washer to clean up the tractor's chassis although I'd like to get a steam cleaner to make it even easier. I do like to sandblast the sheet metal and small parts that are removed from the tractor but you would be sirprised what you can do with $5 worth of oven cleaner and a decent power washer. As for paint it all depends on how much money you want to spend but don't use the cheap farm supply store paint because it won't last 5 years. If you are on a tight budget get paint from a CIH dealer, if you have the proper protective equipment you can add a hardner to it to make it more durable and glossier. I prefer automotive urethane paints, PPG Omni single stage urethane runs about $70/gallon plus hardner and reducer but it looks great and lasts alot longer than the enamel paints. Here is a picture of our 5488 that I painted with base coat/clear coat, it was expensive but it will look great for a long time.

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Allan in NE

02-25-2005 18:09:20




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 02-25-2005 17:27:46  
Cliff,

Rip my heart out! WOW! Is that ever nice! You'll really did a number on that one.

Allan



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jonesy

02-25-2005 16:17:20




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
Nobody uses sand anymore. It does wear on seals and bearings bad. The reason its not used is siliconosis. I blast my tractors with Coal slag Black Beauty. If you do blast take extra care in sealing up everywere you can think of. I have a large blast cabinet and a 100# pressure blaster. I did a SM for my last project and it took 2500#'s of media. Next one I do Ill hire it done but in my HO its the only way to go.

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dr.sportster

02-26-2005 04:32:55




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to jonesy, 02-25-2005 16:17:20  
Jonesy,Nobody said Black Beauty but you .Im surprised its not mentioned more.



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VAJerry

02-25-2005 14:25:57




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
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I am finishing up my Super A. Used eletrolsis. FIT on the John Deere board has a website with all the info you need or google it. Works wonderful. The Sand will get everywhere. This tank is my eletrolsis tank



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Opa A

02-25-2005 12:17:33




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
I've just sand blasted my A, but the tractor is COMPLETELY disassembled, and it still takes alot of work to get the sand out of everywhere. There has been alot of discussion on these boards both for and against sandblasting an assembled tractor. Rusty Farmall's suggestion on using the lye gravy sounds like an excellent choice at a very reasonable cost, I spent $100 on blasting sand alone (partly due to inexperience with the blaster at first).
As far as paints there is lots of good advise, paint codes, types of paint, and safe use of paints on the Paint forum.
Good luck and have fun with your projects!

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Allan in NE

02-25-2005 11:49:33




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
Spray,

Boy, I dunno 'bout that sandblasting thing. Might be okay if the tractor is never run again.

But, if it is worked, it is gonna be leaking from every seal and gasket on it in about three weeks and you'll have to tear it all down and do it over again.

I like this little gizmo; peels 'er clean and is FAST!

Just my view,

Allan

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Redmud

02-25-2005 10:53:45




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
I have a sand blasting rig,but I wouldn"t blast my tractor with it. I am trying to come up with a baking soda blasting rig, and I would blast my tractor with baking soda.



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JT

02-25-2005 09:23:02




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
Has anyone had luck with doing a lot of pressure washing, wire off the excess rust and then using POR-15?



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CNKS

02-25-2005 18:22:22




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to JT, 02-25-2005 09:23:02  
DOn't use POR 15, may be the most advertised, but you may have trouble with paint adhesion.



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PAULIH300

02-25-2005 18:31:57




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to CNKS, 02-25-2005 18:22:22  
You would have to buy their "Tie Coat" to allow regular paint to stick.Overall,its an expensive proposition.
Cheaper overall to use "Rust Bullet" paint.You can paint over it with most anything.



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spray004

02-25-2005 10:53:26




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to JT, 02-25-2005 09:23:02  
I like the electrolysis method. How well would this work for an internally rusted gas tank? Isn't this the same method that radiator shops use to clean fuel tanks?



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doodelbug

02-25-2005 19:47:02




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 10:53:26  
spray004 i cleaned a gas tank with electrolsys and it worked very good. coated it with orange shelac as stated somewhere on here. looks good to me.



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JT

02-25-2005 11:15:43




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 10:53:26  
Have not used POR-15 on tanks, or anything else. I was curious as to how well it would work on tractor frames instead of blasting it. Blasted my M, NEVER will I do that again. On tanks I have used a red tank sealer, that worked great, though.



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Dave H (MI)

02-25-2005 09:00:29




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
Listen to Rusty Farmall, here is your links:

Link

on the same website look into electrolysis also for some of the smaller parts.

Dave



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RustyFarmall

02-25-2005 08:50:11




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
Please do not use a sandblaster! That sand has a nasty way of finding its way into everything including the transmission/rear end and the engine. You will end up taking the entire tractor apart just to get all of that sand out. A much better option would be to use the lye gravy method and a power washer. Someone else will have to tell you the recipe for the gravy, it eludes me at this time.



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Farmall Frank

02-25-2005 09:04:28




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-25-2005 08:50:11  
I think it is a little flour, some turkey drippings, milk, and a box of lye. Deeelicious!



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Charles Park

02-25-2005 08:29:07




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to spray004, 02-25-2005 08:20:35  
Unless you have a very large compressor, have the tractor sandblasted by a pro. Get on the Paint site of this forum and you will learn about paint. PPG is a fine choice. Hope this helps some.



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mikeinky

02-25-2005 11:24:37




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 Re: Sandblasting? in reply to Charles Park, 02-25-2005 08:29:07  
I use oven cleaner and a pressure washer. After using oven cleaner you have to paint it.



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