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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Thanks CNKS to all you paint guys, more opinions

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scott#2

03-23-2005 05:32:52




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Heres my plan for the sheet metal:

Wire wheel the rust off,

Use metal prep or electrolisis (curious about that) and rinse and scrub real good, repeat,

Spray with 2 part epoxy,

Fill pits with body filler,

sand, prime again, sand and top coat.

Is this the right order?

As far as the main tractor;

Block it up, strip it down, wire wheel, use metal prep, scrub and rinse, mabey repeat, 2 part prime, top coat?

Does all paint have to be removed before priming the tractor?

Thank You,
scott#2

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CNKS

03-23-2005 07:19:18




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 Re: Thanks CNKS to all you paint guys, more opini in reply to scott#2, 03-23-2005 05:32:52  
Your sheet metal will be smoother if you use a sandable primer surfacer such as PPG MP 181 over the filler and epoxy. You can use PPG 2K MP 182 urethane surfacer, which has to have hardener, if you have a supplied air system. I use body filler on bare metal, without using epoxy first; some people recommend using epoxy first, then the filler, then more epoxy. I really don't have an opinion on that except the way I do it saves a step. Don't use metal prep -- that is used by body shops who don't want to sand new bare metal. To save work you can strip the sheet metal with chemical paint stripper, then sand it with 180 grit sand paper to remove the underlying rust. Metal prep in this case is redundant, you don't need it. You don't want to get the sheet metal too rough, otherwise you will have to apply more coats and do more sanding on the surfacer. For the small parts, you can wire wheel them or sandblast or use electrolysis (I haven't tried electrolysis yet), whichever suits you. Treat with a wax and grease remover on ALL parts, sheet metal, and chassis before using epoxy. A good one is PPG DX 330. It's a good idea to use the wax and grease remover before you wire brush as the brushing grinds everything into the surface, but I usually don't. Again, don't use metal prep on the chassis, if it has to set a long time after wire brushing without being painted you can use a rust preventive treatment such as Picklex 20 (do a search), this is not washed off, but does react with the cast. Then do repeated applications of wax and grease remover until the rags come back clean -- this will take a long time. On most tractors it is best to remove all the paint because there will be rust under it. If your tractor has not been repainted, it is rusty and the remaining paint is shot. If it hss been repainted, chances are the previous owner or even the dealer did a wash and spray job, and there is still rust under it. Only if you are SURE the old paint is in good condition can it be sanded and sealed with epoxy primer, without stripping it. This is sort of a jumbled response, so ask again if I am not clear on something.

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scott#2

03-23-2005 09:55:56




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 Re: Thanks CNKS to all you paint guys, more opini in reply to CNKS, 03-23-2005 07:19:18  
Thanks CNKS, I got it. I just picked up a stock tank and am going to try the electrolisis thing, should be interesting. I totally understand you reply, not jumbled to me. The tractor has original paint and most is gone at this point. I think the reason why some use the epoxy, then fill pits after is to seal the back side of the piece to prevent moisture from getting to the filler from any pores on the backside. Just a guess though.

Ill keep you posted on the electro thing, will be a couple of days though, raining hard here.

Thanks,

scott

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CNKS

03-23-2005 11:19:14




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 Re: Thanks CNKS to all you paint guys, more opini in reply to scott#2, 03-23-2005 09:55:56  
As to the epoxy, your statement could be true -- I live in a dry climate, and have had bare metal for several months now without a trace of rust, probablly some microscopic rust started though.



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Opa A

03-23-2005 17:43:19




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 Re: Thanks CNKS to all you paint guys, more opini in reply to CNKS, 03-23-2005 11:19:14  
Shops around here say they seal bare metal with epoxy before applying body filler to keep any moisture from getting through the body filler and to the metal,(just as you stated), they never know if someone is going to splash the job while washing another car wet sanding etc. One guy also believes the body filler adheres better to the epoxy than bare metal, others didn't really believe him. CNKS, you've used alot of PPG Omni, do you find you have to seal your sandable primer before color. I heard of problems with bleed through if you sand down to the epoxy in spots and don't use a sealer or another coat of epoxy, they say you can see the spots through the color.

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CNKS

03-23-2005 18:25:21




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 Re: Thanks CNKS to all you paint guys, more opini in reply to Opa A, 03-23-2005 17:43:19  
I don't seal the MP 182 surfacer, and have not seen bleed through probably because I have a flat enough surface that there is no reason for it to happen. Both epoxy and surfacer can be directly topcoated. I use 3 coats of MTK acrylic urethane, that is adequate to cover any primer differences. If someone is sanding down to the epoxy, they should have use body filler to fill the depression, then they will have a uniform covering with surfacer. The MP 181 and 182 are really meant to cover sanding scratches, not deep depressions. HOWEVER, the equivalent DuPont Nason products do recommend a sealer (not epoxy) before topcoating, I believe, any of their primers, epoxy or not. I believe that is rather unusual with modern paints.

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