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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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M Clutch Issues?

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Nathan in Texas

04-02-2005 18:06:26




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I was out finishing up mowing and was working in some very thick brush. I was backing the tractor uphill into the thick brush until it came close to stalling out then going forward, backing up again, going forward, etc., etc. Giving the M a pretty good workout.

After about an hour the clutch started giving me problems. If the tractor was still moving at all the clutch wouldn't completely engage to allow me to shift into gear. I had to put on the brake to stop the tractor then I was able to put it in gear. I have an overrunning clutch on the pto shaft so the tractor doesn't creep on me with the clutch engaged but I don't think that has anything to do with my problem does it?

Then it got worse to the point where even with the tractor stopped I wasn't able to get it in gear. :-/ With the clutch pushed all the way in I would go to put it in gear and the gears would still be turning and the gears would start grinding. I ended up having to turn the tractor off, then I was able to shift it into gear, push in the clutch and start it, then drove the tractor to the house. Once I got back to the house everything seemed fine again and I was able to switch between gears without any problems.

Did I overheat the clutch? What do I need to do? Cross my fingers and hope everything is okay?

Thanks, Nathan

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Don L C

04-02-2005 20:01:47




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 Re: M Clutch Issues? in reply to Nathan in Texas, 04-02-2005 18:06:26  
My guess is the clutch was over heated.....that was not a usuall use of the tractor.....the hardest use of the clutch is enguaging and releaseing under a load..... .I would consider a different way to get at that brush.....say a spray.....



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Don L C

04-02-2005 20:06:41




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 Re: M Clutch Issues? in reply to Don L C, 04-02-2005 20:01:47  
For got to add,adjust the clutch acording to the manual and greas the throwoout bearing.



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John M

04-02-2005 18:36:50




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 Re: M Clutch Issues? in reply to Nathan in Texas, 04-02-2005 18:06:26  
Would it stop moving if you had the tractor in gear and moving if you pushed in the clutch?If not then one of the three adjusting fingers has come loose,they are held in with a pin that has a cotter key on it and if the pin comes out,the clutch will act just as you describe.I had that happen oncec and I was headed for a tree,Thankfully I was able to cut it off fast enough to keep from hitting the tree.

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Nathan in Texas

04-02-2005 18:44:23




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 Re: M Clutch Issues? in reply to John M, 04-02-2005 18:36:50  
It worked perfect on everything except changing gears. If I left it in the same gear it worked perfect.



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CNKS

04-02-2005 18:22:54




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 Re: M Clutch Issues? in reply to Nathan in Texas, 04-02-2005 18:06:26  
I don't know -- it takes the pto a LONG time to stop turning with a load on it. As you found out, you can't shift gears until it stops. I suppose it could have gotten hot, but I have never used mine that hard. I assume you are throttling down when shifting. With no load you can usually shift up or down with minimal grinding. But if you release the clutch in between, the re-engage it, grinding is guaranteed. You will know if it needs work because it will slip if you have damaged it.

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Nathan in Texas

04-02-2005 19:00:59




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 Re: M Clutch Issues? in reply to CNKS, 04-02-2005 18:22:54  
Maybe I'm just worrying for nothing. It isn't slipping at all and other than the issue I just had changing gears it is working perfect. I don't remember having to wait for the PTO to stop turning in the past though.

I wasn't throttling down when shifting. I don't understand what you mean when you say "if you release the clutch in between, the re-engage it, grinding is guaranteed".

I was backing up into the brush until it was about to stall, then pushing in the clutch pedal to keep it from stalling. Then I would put it in 1st and drive out of the brush chopping up the brush that was still in the mower as I pulled out. This was on an uphill slope as well so it was working pretty hard going uphill into the brush.

After 15 or 20 mintues of going back and forth into the brush, when I went to put it into 1st gear it started grinding. I would have to wait a bit and then it would go into gear without grinding and I would drive out of the brush. At one point it didn't seem to want to go into any gear without grinding. That is when I turned it off and was able to put it in gear, start it and drive back to the house. Once at the house everything seemed back to normal.

Reading through the manual on the maintenance charts it says to lube the clutch release bearing and clutch pilot bearing every 60 hours of operation. I still haven't found these zerks to lube them. When I open the hole in the left side of the clutch housing I can't see any zerks to lube? Where is that zerk in relation to where the opening hole is?

Thanks, Nathan

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CNKS

04-04-2005 18:23:11




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 Re: M Clutch Issues? in reply to Nathan in Texas, 04-02-2005 19:00:59  
If you push the clutch in, shift to neutral, let it out, then push it in and shift without waiting a few seconds the gears will grind. The way you were using it, you weren't doing that--In one post below, the oil getting thinner with heat and causing problems was mentioned. As hard as you were using the tractor (in a way you were abusing it), that could be the problem. Also as mentioned, on a hill those gears are under a lot of pressure, shifting in those conditions would be harder. My advice is not to use it so hard, don't back up so far, etc. Your pto and transmission were not made to handle brush.

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williamf

04-03-2005 04:23:55




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 Re: M Clutch Issues? in reply to Nathan in Texas, 04-02-2005 19:00:59  
I'm just guessing here. But somethings I don't know to think about. The pto shaft is directly connected to the bottom (counter)shaft of the transmission. The overrunning clutch works with a sort of ratchet action. When you shift gears you have to pass through neutral. While it's in neutral the only thing to keep the countershaft from spinning is the resistance of turning the gears in that 90wt oil. As it gets warmed up that resistance goes down, maybe to the point that it is less than the resistance of the overrunning clutch, like when you try to use a ratchet on a nut that's so loose that the ratchet won't click free. Do the gears clash if when you stop you disengage the pto before taking it out of reverse?
Wm

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P Backus

04-02-2005 19:54:00




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 Re: M Clutch Issues? in reply to Nathan in Texas, 04-02-2005 19:00:59  
Nathan, the clutch release bearing can be reached by removing the cover plate at the bottom of the clutch housing. The clutch pilot bearing can be reached by turning the crankshaft slowly until the third (single) notch in the fan drive pulley is in line with the pointer on the front cover. This comes right out of an original manual. If i recall correctly, that grease zirk is recessed right in the flywheel itself. I think it's more likely that the pilot bearing is at fault. The throwout bearing would just make a lot of noise. Now don't grease the ever-lovin heck out of the pilot bearing. It's small and too much graese will get on the clutch linings and flywheel face, which is generally considered a bad thing. It also could be one or more of the clutch fingers as someone else suggested. I know you have an overrunning clutch on the PTO, but I'm just curious if it would do the same thing with the PTO off. I imagine that when you would back up that hill and hit the clutch, the mower would woof to a stop. I wonder if the weight of the tractor is putting tension on the gears on the hill, and the fact that the mower is bound up at that point is contributing to the gears being under tension, or wanting to turn. Probably not,tho. It doesn't seem to fit everything that you are saying. Just thinkin' out loud.
Paul

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