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SAE A or B bolt pattern on H4 magneto?

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David in UT

04-06-2005 19:43:43

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Hi all,

On a '40 M restoration, I'm planning on swapping out the totally hammered M&W live hydraulic pump with a modern one. I know -- I could just buy a oem-style replacement, but I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. Either that, or I like the challenge of engineering new parts to old parts or something like that...

In any case, the magneto attaches to the hydraulic pump with a two bolt flange. I'm hoping that flange corresponds to one of the standard SAE hydraulic pump flanges. I've seen reference to Type A and Type B two-bolt designs. Does anyone know if this is the case, and if so, which one?

If it turns out to be standard, then I'm more likely to find a modern pump that will fit...at least on that end of things.

If I can nail down that issue, then I can start looking into machining my own flange for connection to the motor.

Thanks for any thoughts or comments,

- David

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farmalldan

04-07-2005 10:45:15

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Re: SAE A or B bolt pattern on H4 magneto? in reply to David in UT, 04-06-2005 19:43:43

David,
I have had the same thoughts as you and have researched a bit. Problem is the M&W pump replaces the magneto adapter and the attachment to the timing gear cover is proprietary to IHC and not any type of SAE standard. The good news is that the magneto flange is an ASAE standard and closely matches the SAE A bolt pattern (I think). However, the slotted drive coupling does not match the hydraulic pump standard. My thoughts were to machine a plate to match the timing gear cover on one side and a SAE A pad on the other. Then by using a piggy back hydraulic pump and machining the slotted drive coupling, I could put any variety of commercially available hydraulic pumps (as long as they had piggy back capability)on an H or M or ?. So for maybe a $1000-1500 investment and about a month of engineering and manufacturing, I would have a replacement for the stock pump which can be purchased for about $550.00. Somehow, it didn't seem as attactive as it first did. The add on live hydraulics pump for the letter series JD which goes between the mag and the mag flange, now that has interesting posssibilities! Good luck.

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David in UT

04-07-2005 19:51:51

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Re: SAE A or B bolt pattern on H4 magneto? in reply to farmalldan, 04-07-2005 10:45:15

Thanks Dan!

You're right on track with me -- although the guys at the hydraulic shop that checked out the M&W pump thought they could get me piggyback pump for somewhere around 300 bucks...that may not be the case given your research. I'll have to poke around on that a bit more to see how outta whack my cost expectations might be. I've got a couple of buddies that could fabricate the timing gear cover and slotted drive coupling for, so I think I've got that covered.

In any case, thanks for the input. If I get this all working for something close to the $550 for a stock pump, I'll post the details.

- David

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dr.sportster

04-07-2005 10:13:28

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Re: SAE A or B bolt pattern on H4 magneto? in reply to David in UT, 04-06-2005 19:43:43

Ive read this a couple of times now and am not even sure what you mean here.What are the odds of finding a unit that will drive the magneto at the correct rate in relation to the crankshaft.I think the mounting flange is the least of your worries.If the mag is relocated on a motor it still must turn exactly as before at 1/2 crank speed.What will drive the mag at that speed on the new pump?

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David in UT

04-07-2005 19:55:34

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Re: SAE A or B bolt pattern on H4 magneto? in reply to dr.sportster, 04-07-2005 10:13:28

Hi!

The shaft that would run through the pump is all one piece, so it turns at the same rate as original because the gearing on the motor end is the same gear that came off the original pump shaft. In that sense, the hydraulic pump is nothing but a spacer to the magneto. Does that make sense, or did I just muddy the message more ;-?

- David

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