I Don't Get It

I've heard two experienced guys say in just the past two days that their tractors just won't turn correctly while in soft soil.

One fella says that with duals on, the tractor wants to go straight ahead and the other says the tractor won't turn with an implement on behind it while in the field.

This is normal. Arent' we using our brakes?

Heck, I learned that when I was 7 years old and it is an automatic reflex at every spin of the wheel, in the field or not.

I don't get it. :>(

Allan

I was thinking about what you just said yesterday.

When I was a wee lad, I spent my summers cultivating corn and spuds with a 2-row belly unit mounted on either a H or a M. If ya didn't spin 'er and have that brake tire walkin' right back outta it's own track, you cut the crop.

Same way when mowin' hay. If ya couldn't make a absolute 90-degree turn, there was he11 to pay when the head of household learned of it. :>)

And, we all remember the consequences of those little ill-advised feats. :>)

Allan

Let me get this first cup o joe down and I'm sure I'll think of something to get everyone hollarin' at me. :>)

I still think it is a matter of the dry land farming practices vs the irrigated. That along with flotation vs traction. The dry boys turn with the implement in the ground, whereas the irrigators don't; we lift the implement, turn back upon the furrow and drop 'er back in the ground again and go.

Yes, when working a seedbed, I agree, get all the weight possible OFF the outfit and dual 'er up to get that tractor up on top; soft soil against the doubled tires will take care of the traction issue.

Brakes are like a T/A that the good Doc and I were throwin' rocks at each other about yesterday. I simply feel that they both are put on the tractor for a reason; they are put there to use.

And I don't have a "Band of yes men"; everyone here has, and they certainly are entitled to, their own opinion. Lots of us here have tilled the soil.

I just wish we could have a civil conversation without it turning ugly every darned time.

Maybe we never will see eye to eye, I dunno. I just don't think we need to be feuding at every turn because we do things differently; it is a total waste of time and effort.

Allan

I farmed in a climate wher we always had a 45" anual rainfall, on a sandy loam soil about 8' deep and pure gravel underneath. Water table was always at gravel level. That land would turn 500-50lb. bales of alfalfa hay per acre every season. We rotated with corn grown by cow manure and fixed nitrogen. This is a large continant, what works one place will not work elsewhere.

Since coming to YT I have learned something about tobacco farming with SA's in the south, peanut farming in Georgia, corn-soybean in the I states, contour farming in WA, no till, etc. Try as I will you drylanders are awfully tight liped about both irrigation and dryland farming. Remember discussion on here is about broadening our horisions. You seem to be of the opinion, if it didn't happen in NE, it's not worth mentioning.

That's two to three year's production of hay here. Irrigated. 'Course we only get 3 and sometimes 4 cuttings 'cause we are so far north and the growing season is so darned short.

One ol' boy told me last summer that he raised 7 ton; I think I'd have to run it across a scale and watch how he was doing it, tho. Almost totally unheard of in this country. Bankers will write on 3 ton per acre, no more.

Allan

My point is, when you start getting into 100 hp plus, it takes more than two tires to put that hp on the ground. The first year I had my 1066, I operated it with single 20.8x38 tires with chloride. Pulling a disk or cultivator, it would leave wheel tracks the disk or cultivator would not cover. Not a very nice seed bed in my opinion, when you watch the double disc openers on corn planter go axle deep.

Second year I dumped the chloride and went to 20.8x38 duals, cured the wheel track problem. Yes you can used brakes turning, but the impact of steping on brakes with 26' cultivator is a far cry from doing the same with 656 and a 13' cultivator. I have seen 1066 front wheel drop in a dead furrow and keep going down. That doesn't even fizz a 1066 with duals, you just dig the front wheel and bottom of spindle from under the cultivator.

My point is those tractors should have been equiped with larger front tires. If your going to 24" tire out front it may as well have power. I have driven newer tractors with front drive and the ease with which they turn under load is unbelievable. My farming operation was done primarily by hired operators, thus you don't get the same degree of care you might give yourself on tractor operation. Cost of operation is the question at hand in my opinion. I don't really see that conventional tractor with front drive as answer. There are a lot of moving parts to those front ends. Articulated is the way to go in large tractors. If one is going to put 6 or 8 pulling tires on the ground they may as well be all same size.

Right after I bought my 1066 in 1975, I noticed a neighbor with 500 acres of snady loam, flat as a foot ball field, buying 4x4 tractors. First it was a 80 hp Ford, then a 150 hp white. I asked,"Why are you buying 4x4 tractors, you don't have a hill anywhere, your soil is as firm as it comes, duals (which by the way he had for the White) will provide traction for much less money." His answer," They ride smoother and turn much easier under load." Plain and simple, two wheel drive big tractors are from the dark ages. You don't put the wheel of an Austin Mini on a Cadilac. A Farmall SM had 16" front tires as did a 2 wheel drive 1066, width don't matter a damn, diameter is what counts.

If you are pulling a trailing disk, etc., just take out the pins and let the drawbar swing. That was what it was designed for, to help turn.

I was pointing out to you that 4 wheel drive and particularly articulated 4 wheel are far more efficient and cost effective when you get into 100 plus hp tractors. That is precisely why all these old 1066, 1466, 1086, etc. are sitting around with few hours and selling for $4,000. to $6,000. That is precisely what they are worth to commercial agriculture. You may not realize this but there is one awful big difference between a 966 and a 1066. 966 put out the rated hp for the most part. Most 1066's came from factory turning 150 plus.

I rebuilt brakes and front end on my 1066 every year, and at the end of every year the crap was beat out of them. I also had an articulated unit, about same weight and power, one set of center swing bushings in 13,000 hours, and no front end rebuilds nor were the brakes ever apart.

I'd offer you a tractor driving challange as I did George Willer close to two years ago, but for one reason old George at 72 was worthy of it, I'm not sure you are.

To all you folks running around with a 1066 with single wheel 18.4x38. You are merely playing with that tractor. There is no way two 18.4x38 tires will put that kind of horsepower on the ground, in a field situation. Maybe if you want to load it down to 20,000 lbs and put up with soil compaction from the dark ages.

How in the world did you put that many hours per year on that tractor? I know there are some big outfits up there, 'cause I've seen 'em. Fields that just go on for days.

But, you guys must farm around the clock up there in your country.

1250 hours a year figures out to just under three and half months of absolute non-stop 12-hour days. Did you fuel and eat on the run or what?

I’m not being combative in any way whatsoever, just wondering.

Down here, 400 to 600 hours per year is pretty darned heavy and will catch both ends of the season. ‘Course every outfit usually has a number of tractors too. I can’t even imagine running one tractor 1200 plus hours a year.

Allan

One of the machines I had for custom work use behind 1066 was a Dika root windrower. This machine could take every bit of hp 1066 could deliver. I would poke close to 10 gal. per hour fuel through 1066. I had two guys want to hire just the machine, 966 and an Allis 200. They both unhooked after an hour.

I'm assuming that you used the regular 100-hour oil change intervals?

Just can't get my mind wrapped around changing the oil and filters in a tractor 12 times per year and fueling up to 5 or 6 times a day at 10 gallon an hour.

Were your hired men responsible for their own oil changes too or did you have other people in charge of the maintenance end of things? The oil barons must have loved you. :>)

Really tryin' to understand how you operated, ‘cause the biggest operator I ever knew ran 14 hired men across 15,000 acres in Iowa, Texas and Brazil. He used more than one tractor tho.

Allan

Shouldn't have even brought it up, I guess.

But this one feller is wanting to hang a bunch of weight out on the front of his tractor to make it steer right again.

Just caught me off guard, is all. :>(

Allan

Well, I didn't wanna mention any names, but these two fellas are regulars on here and I really respect and enjoy reading what they say.

It just surprised me is all.

I can remember my dad teaching me that the very first time I was ever on a tractor and rakin' hay.

'Course in row crop, every blessed turn is a sharp turn. :>)

Allan

Everytime ya go into a turn, your foot just automatically "goes" to the brake.

Oh well, and so it goes.

Allan

casey in SD, yes, the guy that wants to hang some weight on the front of his tractor.

casey

Sorry I drug you into this mud-slingin' contest; sure didn't mean for it to go south like this.

I just read that you wanted more weight out front to make 'er turn better. Maybe that is how you drylanders do things, I sure don't know.

I just had a knee-jerk reaction from my own experiences and thought to myself that this was in total opposition to the way I would do it.

I'd be for dualing up and getting the weight off and I'd be standin' on those brakes at every turn. But, that's an irrigator's view; we lift the implement on the turns. You guys don't.

You hang all the weight ya want on 'er ya want; its your tactor and your operation. You know best, that's for sure.

Allan

It's not Gordon's fault. I'm the guilty one that brought this stupid subject up and I should have keep my big yap shut yet once again.

I always forget that things are different in different parts of the country, or in different parts of the world for that matter, and I just wanted to help a young guy out is all. Sure didn't mean to get all the fur flyin'.

So, hollar at me, not him. :>)

Allan

But you sure have some nice friends, here is an email I received as soon as I posted my comments:

""The following message is being sent to you via the Yesterdays Tractor Co website. It is in response to the discussion forum message titled "Re: I Don't Get It" posted on the Farmall Forum. Name: Ben Phone: 902-566-4358 Location: Redgranite, WI Message: To scared to psot your name when your talking shit?""

No, I'm not afraid to post my name. It shows in my email address. Maybe you, Allan, would prefer to continue this conversation off the Forum?

Robert