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Axle ratios, etc

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CNKS

04-26-2005 13:54:15

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In 1992 I bought a GMC K1500, 350 cu in, automatic, 3.42 rear axle. Since then I have developed tractor disease and tow occasionally. My half ton is not a towing vehicle. I have added an extra capacity trans oil pan and an external trans oil cooler. Oil temp hits 230-250 degrees even in "flat" Kansas because of the usual head or cross wind. Pickup has 83000 miles (just broken in) and is in excellent condition, inside and out. A $30000 3/4 ton (including trade, rebate and sales tax, GMC 2500HD 6.0, 4.10) is not an option because I only tow once a year or so for any distance. Transmission is a 4L60 (700R4), the small one. Towing "capacity" is about 6500 lbs, meaning on flat ground with a tailwind -- that situation never happens. The trans will overheat against the wind even when towing a Farmall C, less than 5000 lbs including the trailer. Does anyone have this combination with a 3.73 or 4.10 axle ratio, and will this allow me to do my occasional towing without eventually melting my transmission? Lower gears (high numerical) would also help unloaded travel, as the lockup disengages on the slightest incline. The thing is simply geared too high--I am somewhat hesitant to go to 4.10, as I would need that gearing only for towing. Empty in overdrive it turns about 1800 rpm at 70 mph, with a 4.10 that would be about 2200 rpm -- perhaps that's not too bad, still lower than the rpm before overdrive became common. I don't know how much the 3.73 ratio will help. Would have to do both axles -- read on one of the towing forums that it would cost about $1500 for both axles, so it needs to work. There are also underdrive/overdrive split range (2 speed axle) attachments, more like $3000 for those. I realize I can't make a 3/4 HD out of it, just want something that will work for occasional towing, within the rated specs. All comments except--buy another pickup--are welcome.

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Haas

04-27-2005 13:32:25

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

You need the 4.10 gears. I had a 99 Chevy 2500 6.0 liter with 3.73 gears. I don't have it any more. It was fine on the flat and would easily handle a Farmall C, but I am into heavier loads than that. I don't think Chevy even offers 3/4 ton trucks anymore with the 3.73 gears unless it is a diesel. I believe all the gassers are 4.10.

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dbNga

04-27-2005 09:21:00

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

Here's a thought:: I have an 89 Silverado 1500, long bed extended cab. I have pulled a 30 ft. fifth wheel camper trailer since 1991. I put a huge cooler on my trans. I believe it was for a dump truck and rated for 29000 lbs. My temp may rise to 220 or so but has never overheated even sitting in traffic. The truck now has 224,000 miles on it and the trans(700r4). Also it has 3:08 gears. I can't get in a hurry but I do get there. On open road at 65 mph truck only I get 21.3 mpg, around town 15 and above.Never pulled in OD, if I were you I'd try the biggest cooler I could put behind grill and plumb from radiator to it back to trans. I have original radiator still but yours sounds like it might be too small for the job. Good Luck.

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onefarmer

04-27-2005 08:21:59

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

Hey there, I have a 94 c1500 w/4.3 and 4L60E So I know how you feel only more so with the 4.3 I think going to the 3.73 gears would be the best compromise between daily driving and occasional towing. It would cure your lockup issue daily driving and when towing provide better gears not the best but better. Just use direct drive for less strain on the converter. The converter slipping is where the heat comes from. If you didn't already, get the biggest tranny cooler you can find, then plumb the lines to go thru the radiator first then the cooler for the best cooling. It won't be the best for towing but is the best compromise. I have a 85 Astro w/4.3 and 700r4 and I haul 120 bales of hay every weekend and it is under powered but tranny stands up fine in drive. In OD it would die a quick death from the heat.

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lee

04-27-2005 06:43:41

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

Just go ahead then and and fix it to do what you need. I got forced to do a similar thing on an old 91 Bronco. I still have to drive it cause I got so much in it. Engine blew 2 years ago, mid winter, unemployed, the truck was worthless, no motor,I had to build another for it, cost me $1500. Got that done drove just 10 miles to find the trans was shuddering and leaking at the front seal. Didn't know of the shudder with the old tired motor. Pulled the trans for a re-build, cost me another $800. Now I got a beat up old truck with like new motor /trans. At least you got a good truck to start with.

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CNKS

04-27-2005 06:57:36

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to lee, 04-27-2005 06:43:41

Yes. that's why I don't want to get rid of it. Transmission place suggests 3.73's. Going to get the trans flushed and new fluid, and think about it for a while -- thanks.

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NDS

04-27-2005 06:05:28

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

You must have some problem in transmission. I have same combination in 1992 GMC van and it will pull 5000 lbs. through Appalachin hills with some long second gear climbs with no problem. Only owned van for little over 5 years but have driven it 90K miles.

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dave from MN

04-27-2005 05:51:59

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

fATHER IN LAW IS SELLING HIS 97 CHEVY 3500. rEG CAD, OVERLOAD SPRINGS. sET UP FOR HAULING 5TH WHEEL ALL INSTALLED, 454. $7000 TAKES IT AND IT IS MINT. 160000 HIGHWAY MILES HAULING STEERS. ONLY REASON HE IS SELLING IS HE IS DOWNSIZING IS SELLING THE ONLY RIG THAT IS NOT A EXCAB. i WOULD BUY BUT NEED A 4 DOOR FOR FAMILY. lOCATED CENTRAL mn

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K.B.-826

04-26-2005 20:51:27

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

CNKS, I know you don't want to hear it, but for the $ you'd spend modifying your pickup, you could probably just go out and buy an old 3/4 ton reliable enough for occasional towing. I know, insurance... but it probably won't cost you any more in the long run, considering what you'd spend on gas with 4.10's in the rear of your daily driver.

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lee

04-26-2005 18:55:22

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

Often times there are no sure bets. This may just be one of those. Let's say you change gears. Maybe it helps some but then that borderline trans decides it's had enough anyway so you're up a creek, no paddle, forced to dump more money, cause the truck ain't worth nothin now with a bad trans and you just sunk $1500 in new gears. Sell it and get a better suited rig.

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CNKS

04-26-2005 19:07:59

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to lee, 04-26-2005 18:55:22

Lee, then I replace the transmission -- another $1500-2000? Getting close to the trade-in value, but if I buy new, that's $30000, 10 times the cost of new gears and transmission. My truck is in excellent shape otherwise. "Maintenance" items, starter, alternator, water pump, radiator, etc, have all been replaced in recent years. New tires a couple of months ago. I know this truck -- $10000-$20000? for a "good" used truck I know nothing about except what the 30 day warranty used truck place says -- I don't think so. Every time I keep a vehicle for several years, so that it's equivalent to one 1/3 it's age, I trade it off -- not this time. Three years ago I traded a 93 Grand Cherokee for a new 2002, cost me $20000, the new one is better in some ways, worse in others, wish I had the 93 back.

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Paul Shuler

04-26-2005 17:25:34

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

Hi CNKS, I just went through what your talking about a year ago. The 305 in my old chevy had gotten very tired. I liked the truck but hated the motor. I came across a 400 small block, rebuilt it and put a cam, intake and lots of goodies on it to make it pull. I to had the 700 R4 trany and that motor ate it's lunch in about 4 weeks. When I had my tranny rebuilt I sat down with the shop and told them that I wanted to be able to tow my tractors with it and I wanted it to last. They said the R4 rebuilt to factory specs would never hold up to the horse's I was running. They rebuilt it with a all heavy duty parts, such as the torque converter and such. They had me look at the parts that came out and the ones they put in and there was a world of differecne. They also put on a huge cooler. They also said NEVER tow in overdrive with a 700 R4. Two months ago I hauled a H 500 miles and could not belive how well it pulled. On one long grade in SE Neb I passed a Dodge cummings one ton and a Power stroke Ford pulling bass boats. I'm not claiming I could out pull them but it never lost a mile per hour going up hill and it never down shifted or kicked in the four barrel. I'm also running a 3.42 rear end. Hey I would love a new heavy duty truck but the truth is I have a 16 year old daughter and a 13 year old boy. Braces,cars and oh my goodness, insurance on a 16 year old. So my old beater will have to do for a while more. And it only seems right to pull a 60 year old tractor behind a 20 year old truck.
Paul

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Paul Shuler

04-26-2005 17:28:33

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Oh one more thing in reply to Paul Shuler, 04-26-2005 17:25:34

It was about $1250 for the heavy duty transmission rebuild with coolers and labor and everything. That's a lot less than swapping gear ratios in the front and rear.

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CNKS

04-26-2005 18:41:17

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Re: Oh one more thing in reply to Paul Shuler, 04-26-2005 17:28:33

Paul, Thanks, I'm going to check on that with a local transmission place. Only thing, my 350 is in good shape, and modifying it is expensive -- It is also a little wimpy if I drive 65 mph in the wind (I keep bringing wind up, but that is THE problem in KS). Still think I need lower gearing, but if the transmission will handle the load, I can get by.

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ChadS

04-26-2005 17:24:08

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

Ive had quite a few Chevy "Tow" vehicles in my 15 years of tractor pulling. 2wd's, 4x4's all automatics with that 700r4. The most roublesome I had, was 2 chevys,, 88 2500 lite 3/4 2wd extended cab, GMC sierra, that had 373's in it, 350/700r4. Had 265 85 16's on it I think,, That one was the best out of the two,, only 2 transmissions in that one,, I also had a 88 Chevy 2500 lite 3/4 4x4 with the same engine and tranny but regular cab style, That one only took out one tranny,,, I stopped using it, cause that one bout broke the farm rebuilding it, and stepping it up for what I needed. 1900 bucks I think the bill was, but,, was a great transmission after that,, My brother in law had a 2500 4x4 that he treid everything to do what your wanting to do,,, spent quite a bit of $$$ on coolers, rebuild, after rebuild, gear ratio changes,, finally, after a newly rebuilt transmission, had a 28ft goosneck trailer on the back, with a massey 101 and a farmall H on it,, bout 7500 lbs load on it from the tractors,, heading to a tractor pull. 30 miles later, I was heading back to the farm after the Other truck cause the 700r4 puked yet another time. Let me tell ya,,, I did not like standing next to him when that happened,,,, also, I was glad, I wanst on the other end of the phone, along road side phone call the tranny shop got from him!!! It was too bad, cuase it was such a nice ol truck! And spending another 1300 dollars was not the option. The transmission shop then informed my brother in law of a conversion kit that works with these trucks. For about $700,, including the tranny rebuild,, and installation,, a nice beefy 400 turbo was installed in place of the 700r4. Never had another problem ever again out if it. Just set a new 350 in it, still going, and going,, wanna pull a trailer with it?? hooker up and go!! Now if you wanna spend lots of $$, try to beef up the 700r4, but its going to blow sooner or later, they are a light duty transmission!! Youll like the 400 if you try it,, like a rock. ChadS

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CNKS

04-26-2005 18:27:45

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to ChadS, 04-26-2005 17:24:08

Thanks, I have heard of the 400, I think my 72 Monte Carlo 454 had that transmission--no overdrive, high rpm empty, unless someone has figured out how to put OD on it. If I towed a lot, that would be the way to go. You and your brother and law have pulled more than me, I don't know what a Massey 101 is, but I know what an H weighs -- new 700R4 or not, that was too much weight. It could be that my trans is getting worn, no symptoms at all except it burns the fluid and eventually spews it out the vent when towing, -- that's how I knew it was hot to begin with -- I was only pulling a 2000 lb trailer and a Super A, but against a 30 mph wind. Good as new when not towing. A couple of years before that in 1997 I believe, I had pulled an H from Amarillo TX to Garden City, KS -- that was the first time I towed with it, no problem at all, I suppose it was hot, but the fluid didn't burn, or come out the vent, I thought everything was swell, I did not have a temp gauge at that time.

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Bob

04-26-2005 15:57:46

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

As far as the tranny temp goes, that can be solved with a monster tranny cooler. Some people also swear by a deep, finned aluminum tranny pan.

For occasional towing, you'll never get back the cost of the gear change.

Also, with changing the gears, there's a bit of technical knowledge and labor involved, and for best results, some special gauges are needed to set up the gears, especially in the IFS axle.

If you're really intent on changing the gears, the ideal thing would be a swap of axles with someone wanting to go the other way..

Also, the engine computer may be happier with a different chip, if the axle ratio is changed.

The speedometer will be "off", I forget the details of correcting that, it will probably require a DRAC module.

So for occasional towing, adding a big cooler is a great idea, and changing the axle ratio is a somewhat difficult, costly option that will take a very long time to pay back.

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Hugh MacKay

04-26-2005 15:44:19

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

CNKS: I think the real solution lies in the transmission. Until you change that I don't think problem will go away. I experienced much the same with a 3/4 ton but only rated 7200 GVW. My truck had an optional 3.24 axle ratio. I don't have the truck anymore so can't tell you original transmission model. I installed a clutch and 4 speed transmission and that ended the problem. I lost my overdrive, but standard transmission increased my fuel milage. My truck was diesel, thus low rpm was not a concern on torque. In fact I think the torque at low rpm is what killed my original transmission. There was a very steep long hill near my home. With 6.2 diesel and overdrive automatic, if I started up that hill at 60 mph, truck would be down to 30 mph at top of hill. The first day I installed the 4 speed standard, I tried the same hill to compare, bottom of hill 60 mph and still trucking along at 60 mph at top of hill. Those comparisons were both with empty truck. Kind of tells you how inefficient those damn automatics are. I would never look at trailering with a automatic. Sure people are doing it but what is the cost. Not too many automatics in the big highway tractors, they need efficiency, to compete.

I used to run 3 pickups, usually bought them used thus they were never equiped quite the way I wished. I never bought a truck unless it had 3.24 or 3.42 axle gears. If you go to 3.73 or 4.10 you may as well buy 1 ton with duals, and soon as you put the duals on you may as well go to 20" tires and buy a real truck. Believe me, I've had both. Many of the single axle highway tractors, today are topping the 10-12 mpg today. Some of these guys with their 1 tons make me laugh, they paid more for the 1 ton than they would for a big truck to begin with, and the big truck with air brakes will give better milage.

The other item I would never do, is pull a trailer with a 4x4. I've seen way too many of them jack knifed from holding back with gears on wet or slipery roads in 4 wheel drive. Far better to hold back with trailer brakes. I know what I'd do if I were you. I'd sell the 4x4, 1/2 ton. Go out and buy a two wheel drive 3/4 about same vintage with 4 or 5 speed standard transmission. You say your only going to drive 5,000 miles per year, you'll be money in. You have another 4x4 in case of an old fashion KS winter. You not going to trailer the tractor in deep snow any how.

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CNKS

04-26-2005 17:59:30

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-26-2005 15:44:19

Hugh, you are a semi driver. I'm not. That's comparing an apple and an orange, more like an apple and a bowling ball. Or perhaps a Cub and an 806, since this is a tractor forum. All I am asking is if I can go to a 3.73 or 4.10, perhaps with a larger oil pan, and perhaps a better external cooler than I have now, and be able to tow 2-300 miles once a year or so without ruining my transmission. All within the CGVW of the trailer and the pickup. I'm not trying to make a 2500HD out of a 1500, and it makes no sense to me to buy a new, or a used one in as good condition as mine, for limited towing. On the other hand I don't want to run 3000 rpm empty, I don't think the 4.10 will turn more than 2200 in OD, vs about 1800 now. Someone correct me if my calculations are wrong. 4x4 has nothing to do with my towing, except that it lowers the combined CGVW of the trailer and pickup because the 4X4 is a little heavier than the corresponding 2WD version. I have no intention of towing in 4WD. Western KS is not Canada, but I first drove a 4X4 in 1992, (record 60 inches of snow in 92-93, Canadians probably call that flurries) and I will NEVER go back to 2WD, in my opinion 4WD is that much better, even in KS. When I need it, it's there. Much more solid than 2WD -- And, my 4X4 is not one you see in the ditch during snowstorms. If I get stranded in a snowstorm somewhere, (most likely I would stay home), I can wait it out. I have no desire to rip out an automatic and replace with a manual, If I could afford a new truck, it would also be auto -- that is an individual preference and depends on who is talking. I'm not arguing your opinion, in fact you are likely correct. In simple terms the 4L60 in my GMC is the wrong transmission for towing, the 4L80E would be much better, but I would have to change transmission, axle ratio, and the computer since the 4L80E is computer controlled, the 4L60 is not. I would still like to know if a 3.73 or 4.10 will make the trans run cooler, or not, if someone could answer that question, I would be satisfied--I don't think there's any question that the lower gears would pull better. But, it amounts to the same transmission turning faster -- I assume due to the lower gearing, that there is less "strain" on the trans, but I don't have that answer yet. As to other posts indicating that I won't get my $1500 or whatever, back, that doesn't interest me, and if it saves my transmission, it's the pay now, or pay later thing. The fact that it's a 13 year old pickup, doesn't bother me, because I take care of things, except that good care goes out the window when the trans temp hits 250 degrees. I appreciate your's and the others comments -- now if someone would just answer my question --.

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Hugh MacKay

04-26-2005 20:46:03

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 17:59:30

CNKS: Your right, this is Canada up here and I've never owned a 4x4 in my life. Once had to go 12 miles into bush on a logging truck road after a snow storm that started as rain, so layer of ice on bottom. My tractor which was going to plow the snow was the 12 miles back. I took the lead with two wheel drive Chevy with 150 gal diesel tank on back. Two guys with a 4x4 were giong to follow in case I encountered problems. They went in ditch and I was the only one to get there.

I beg your pardon on comparing apples, oranges,bowling balls, Cub or an 806. Once you hook a trailer behind the principle is the same, you start pulling 2, 3, 4 or 5 times the weight of towing vehicle. I owned a light 3/4, that I mentioned in earlier post, with a 16' bumper hitch trailer pulled 10,000 GVW. A heavy 3/4 same axle ratio that pulled an 18' bumper hitch trailer pulled 20,000 GVW Also a single axle highway tractor with tandem axle drop deck trailer 65,000 GVW. I had all those when I was farming, and can tell you the principles of driving, loading, braking, etc. differ very little. You put a 1066 and 656 behind that highway tractor positioned wrong on trailer and it will make your journey just as miserable as the 10,000 GVW with a Super A loaded wrong. I have driven the big rigs all the way up to 140,000 GVW, believe me the principle never changes. Once you reach that rated load, they react much the same.

I clearly gave you what I considered good advice. I've seen too many pickups, heavy and light, automatic transmissions, parked at repair shops with transmission out, all from trailering. I've seen just as many twisted up 4x4 pickups, jack knifed from holding a load back on slippery roads in 4 wheel drive. You know the old saying," You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

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Stickler

04-27-2005 11:58:12

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-26-2005 20:46:03

Hugh, you're right on the money as usual. I'm in Canada too, and I do have 4X4's, but I also use them sensibly. I've experienced torque steer too many times not to. I would never dream of towing with 4X4 engaged, or engaging it on ice or hardpacked snow. Also right on the money about getting the right truck to tow with. When my last heavy 3/4 crew cab with 350, THM400 and 4.56 gears died from rust, I bought a 1960 KW single axle cabover. only a 200 Cummins, 10 spd, but pulling light weight stock trailer or lowboy and whatever equipment I want to put on it, the thing still gets just about as good of mileage as the old crew cab when it was working hard. And, the hwy tractor and trailers have REAL brakes! Only real hassle is getting them inspected yearly. pretty cheap to register with farm plates. Tractor and 2 trailers didn't cost me as much to buy as a decent 3/4 ton would have.

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ChadS

04-26-2005 18:59:02

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 17:59:30

When hauling,, be gentle on the hills, stay out of overdrive,, add a big cooler, maybe a bigger radiator, I recommend that lucas transmission additive,, that stuff is good!! Main killer on 700r4s are the tv cable adjustments,, they are set to shift softly from the factory, and does slip the tranny to do so... Best $$ is a shift kit, valve body overhaul, and big cooler and oil pan, drive conserativly, and after the trip, change the fluid if it gets too hot. Should be good for 25000,30,000 miles of normal wear and tear wit the occasional load. Buy good fluid,, not the cheap stuff, it dont take the heat. I think your situation is a give and take thing,, you may give it strength,, but you may lose economy,, but its your choice, Good luck sir! ChadS

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CNKS

04-26-2005 19:45:05

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to ChadS, 04-26-2005 18:59:02

I pulled a Super H on a 3000 lb rented trailer, about 7000+ lbs total from Steel Wheel Ranch at Everest KS, to Salina, KS, about 150 miles I think, August 2002. Too much weight, about 500 more than CGVW, had the transmission fluid changed, they put in some type of additive, don't know if it was Lucas or not, drove another 100 or so miles, fluid was low, had to add more. Then drove another 100 miles to Garden City, KS. -- not going to try that much weight again, that was a rough trip. But, I probably haven't shelled my transmission because I keep the fluid changed. Did not haul again until 2 weeks ago -- that's when I used my gauge and increased capacity pan for the 1st time. Went 50 miles south, temp stayed below 200 degrees, turned west into a NW wind, temp gradually went up to 230 or so degrees, actually got it to go down a little by using overdrive, then began to rise to 250. Pulled the rest of the way in 3rd. This was with "only" 5000 lbs. There may be something to your lockup adjustment, as the thing was shifting in and out of lockup in 3rd, also. I had not noticed that before, I thought lockup was only in 4th (OD). Going to see what the transmission/axle place says about axle change vs rebuilding, together they will cost a bunch. Perhaps the trans is slipping a little, it shifts better when loaded. The 1-2 shift has been rough from day one, at least under moderate acceleration when cold. When pulling I barely feel it, but there is no lag or increase in rpm when shifting, so the trans is still ok -- so far. But, the best thing I could do is stop buying tractors that are 2-300 miles away.

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ChadS

04-27-2005 07:46:04

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 19:45:05

Id start Junk yard shopping for wrecked 4x4's with the axle parts. The best transmission Ive found to replace the 700r4 is out of the V6 astro vans,, 4.3L. Mite save you some $$! it sounds like you have a restriction in the valve body, its not plugged or anything,, when I had my tranny built, they opened up an oil port somewhere to increase fluid flow, and that helped the heat. When you work the tranny, and it cant flow the fluid fast enough, it will keep the heat, and it will build and build. Over pressure is a common problem for heat in these,,, No, full torque converter lock up is in OD,, the rest is half-3/4 lock up. that kit I told you about for the overdrive helps this,, the torque converters are lite duty, and gets the front pump hot, pops the seal, and your pump will eventually go out. Yeah,, I stopped travling to pulls over 300 miles away too,,, LOL,, Ive switched to a F-350 Diesil with a 5 speed. yeah its slower,, but,, it gits er done!! Id say,, your looking at 1500-2500 for all the work done,, but,, you have one heck of a truck when your done! Chad

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lee

04-26-2005 15:41:32

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

whatever you do it won't be enough for serious hauling. Maybe the best bet is the 4.10 gears given it's not a daily driver, but what about a manual 5 speed trans if they make one for it. Then again, the 3.4 gears make it a highway cruiser.

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CNKS

04-26-2005 18:53:42

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to lee, 04-26-2005 15:41:32

It is a daily driver, more like several short trips a week, I like automatics, have also driven 4 speeds, don't want to replace with a manual transmission. Works very well on the highway with 3.42's but the torque converter shifts in and out of lockup too much. Far as I'm concerned 3.42 was a mistake, should have been 3.73.

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ChadS

04-26-2005 19:02:11

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 18:53:42

Jegs have a kit, that changes the pressure that when overdrive kicks in,, it stays in till you either downshift, or drop below rated overdrive speed. Bout 30 bucks,, it does help overrive back and forth shifting,, ChadS

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26Red

04-26-2005 14:32:02

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

A 4:10 gear ratio will put you right back into the towing game. And it won't kill your mileage( you still have overdrive for regular driving). Shop around for places that install gear sets- $1500 per axle is high...try that price for both axles. What size tires are you running now? I knew a guy who swapped his tires to a smaller size, everytime he had to tow- which was only a few times a year. Maybe your transmission cooling lines or your factory cooler is plugged?

Randy's ring and pinion

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scot_c

04-26-2005 17:46:24

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to 26Red, 04-26-2005 14:32:02

that's what I'd suggest a set of el cheapo deluxe junkyard rims and shorter tires would effectively reduce the gearing and you'd have to eat baloney and mac and cheese for fewer weeks to afford it. IF swapping over to the shorter tires permanantly have to have speedo calibrated.

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CNKS

04-26-2005 14:46:39

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to 26Red, 04-26-2005 14:32:02

$1500 was for both axles -- I haven't looked around yet -- thanks for the link. With cheaper gas prices, I didn't think about mileage. I once had a 454 Monte Carlo, 3.31 no overdrive. 12 mpg downhill with a talewind. Ran over 3000 rpm at 80, speed limit at that time was 70 on 2-lane 75 on interstate.

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CNKS

04-26-2005 14:17:30

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

P.S.-- I usually do not tow in overdrive, although my experience is that it really doesn't make much difference -- still too hot. With a 4.10 (direct) my calculations come to about 2900 rpm at 65 mph, as opposed to 2400 with the existing 3.42. Will the higher rpm make it run that much cooler? Or is the transmission simply inadequate for the job? I can also use a bigger trans cooler, and bypass the radiator, as it's set up now it still uses the factory radiator cooler in addition to the external. I did run it once with the radiator bypassed, it still over heated, at that time I was over the recommended GVW, not going to do that again.

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dr.sportster

04-26-2005 14:39:52

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 14:17:30

I bought my truck[GMC]from a group that pulled a dirt modified stock car.It was one ton rear.I never saw such a stack of tranny coolers.I think it had five of them.Part of the problem was they installed a 400 cu in and I went back to the 350 everything cooled way down.The floor would get so hot the passengers put their feet on the dashhboard untill the motor swap.4.10 rear is not going to be easy on gas.This was a high cube van.Since I never towed with it Im not really helping with this info.Put lots of heavy stuff in the back.

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RustyFarmall

04-26-2005 14:16:51

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 13:54:15

The 3.73 would help, but not much. The 4.10 will absolutely kill your fuel mileage when empty. If you have ever towed with a heavy duty 3/4 or one ton you would never again consider towing with a 1/2 ton. Shop around, there are deals to be found.

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CNKS

04-26-2005 14:36:22

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to RustyFarmall, 04-26-2005 14:16:51

The way I drive empty (heavy foot) I get about 15 mph, 4.10 adds about 20% more rpm, thus the 15 becomes 12 -- however the torque converter should stay locked up, and the trans will not downshift below 55 mph or so when passing -- I do that a lot, so mileage will decrease empty, but maybe not 20%. Don't get any mileage in city traffic anyway, and that's not our only vehicle, only gets driven 4-5000 miles a year. A 3/4 ton makes no sense, dollarwise, unless I sell my wife's vehicle and between us drive it enough to be worthwhile. Can buy a lot of $2.25 gas for the price of another vehicle, can also afford to fry the transmission once, but don't want to. As far as towing, it tows a properly balanced trailer very well, if it wasn't for the darn headwind.

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superih

04-26-2005 15:10:44

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Re: Axle ratios, etc in reply to CNKS, 04-26-2005 14:36:22

Definitley go with a seperate trans cooler. Go to the parts store and ask for an RV trans cooler. I think around 40 bucks. Mount it in front of your radiator and A/C condensor, if you have one, in the center of your grill so that you can get the most air flow. Bypass the radiator and run your cooler lines directly to the cooler.

I have found on my Powerstroke that running in overdrive lowers the trans temp. I believe that it is due to not pumping the fluid as fast as in direct.

4-10 gears you will notice an unbelievable difference in towing ability. If you only drive 5000 miles a year go for it. My truck has 3.73 gears and it tows 25,000 no problem, but I have a powerstroke that is 350 horse and 700 lb-fts torque.

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