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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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thermo syphon

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Mark Hogberg

04-27-2005 20:07:06




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I was wondering if someone could explain to me how a thermo syphon works. I understand my 1940 A is equipped with it rather than a water pump? I have noticed that after I have mowed for an hour or so I start to loose coolant from under the radiator cap. The tractor does not run hot so I'm kind of baffled.




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r4etired

04-28-2005 19:22:45




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 Re: thermo syphon in reply to Mark Hogberg, 04-27-2005 20:07:06  
A buildup of lime and calcium in the radiator and the head slows down the gpm of coolant thus proper cooling can not occur, Take a stem thermometer and compare temps at the top and very bottom of the radiator if you don't have at least a 10 to 12 degree drop across the radiator ,I think you will find dirty fins in the radiator or a limed up head. ,Pressure systems only raise the boiling point, A 15 pound can run up to 240 degrees before it will boil,I would check if a water pump from a super c will fit an A ,it will work on a straight C.Years ago anti freeze was very expensive,You could use alcohol in the radiator in the winter but it boils at 180 so when spring plowing started you had to go back to water,Most farmers just drained the tractor each night and refilled the next morning,That also provided a new source of lime and calcium every morning, Ever notice the size of the radiator fill on pre1939 tractors

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Okla Kansas

04-28-2005 18:42:24




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 Re: thermo syphon in reply to Mark Hogberg, 04-27-2005 20:07:06  

Wall, ilkl try my hand at it. Ya see, it takes less actual volumn of water if its cold to fill a certain area than when its hot, consequently, if you look at it before starting up, and its full to the cap cold, its gotta go somewhere once it gets hot. You might look at your overfill and see if its not plugged up. Normal running, the overflow should take care of the rising water level as it heats up. if its plugged, then its gonna go out the caP. tHE F-30s have a baffle built in the radiator that shows just how full to fill it without any (hopful) trouble. On others you just have to guess. Id say, as a rule of thumb, iof lacking anything else, filling it 1/2 way between the top of the fins and the cap

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Andrew Z

04-28-2005 10:46:57




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 Re: thermo syphon in reply to Mark Hogberg, 04-27-2005 20:07:06  
The same happened to me last summer while tedding hay with my A. It turns out I put to much coolant in. Andrew



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Red Dave

04-28-2005 08:02:10




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 Re: thermo syphon in reply to Mark Hogberg, 04-27-2005 20:07:06  
Mark, the key to a thermosyphon system is to keep the coolant filled to within about 2 or so inches of the neck of the radiator. Coolant has to cover the opening to the head for the syphon action to work efficiently.

The other thing that will ruin it is obstructions in the coolant passages. The block and radiator need to be clear of rust & scale as much as possible.

A little coolant coming out the overflow after working the tractor hard shouldn't be a cause for concern. I would, however, check coolant level after it cools and top it off if needed.

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Wayne Swenson

04-27-2005 20:58:07




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 Re: thermo syphon in reply to Mark Hogberg, 04-27-2005 20:07:06  
The as the liquid in the engine gets hot, it rises and flows towards the top of the cylinder head and from there to the top of the radiator. at the same time, liquid travels down through the radiator getting cooler because the fan is pulling air past the finned tubes containing the liquid. The cooled liquid collects at the bottom of the radiator and now travels up into the engine block completing the cycle of hot liquid rising & cooler liquid falling.
Basic science that worked very well until engineers started speeding up the engines, enlarging the cylinders, advancing the timing, increasing the compression and modifying the fuels all to get more horsepower. That evolution required water pumps to circulate the liqids more efficiently. Then the next step was to pressurize the cooling system so a smaller radiator could do the job of a larger one. ($$$ savings??) Copper shortages in WW II required the use of pressurized systems with the non-copper radiator tubes & fins so the tractor would not overheat.

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Farmall Mike

02-20-2006 18:20:29




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 Re: thermo syphon in reply to Wayne Swenson, 04-27-2005 20:58:07  
I have a 1940 Farmall A. The engine is off a Super B. I"m not sure what the radiator is off of. What is the best way to confirm if I need a pressurized or a non-pressurized rad cap?



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Hugh MacKay

04-29-2005 02:21:01




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 Re: thermo syphon in reply to Wayne Swenson, 04-27-2005 20:58:07  
Wayne: My 1953 Super A has a presurized thermosyphon system, been working well for 52 years, with one minor hitch about 15 years ago, head gasket. There are two reasons for coolant being forced out the cap, too full as Haas said or a bad head gasket. That will happen to both presurized and non presurized systems.



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Haas

04-28-2005 05:56:05




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 Re: thermo syphon in reply to Wayne Swenson, 04-27-2005 20:58:07  
Although the A thermosyphon system is not pressurized, some thermosyphon systems are. My Farmall C is thermosyphon and has a pressurized system. Thermosyphon works under pressure just as well as the vented system on the A. Hogberg's A is probably loosing coolant when it gets warm because he has filled it too full. When that happens, the excess just goes out the overflow when the coolant expands. Better to do that than have it get low.

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old

04-27-2005 20:14:51




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 Re: thermo syphon in reply to Mark Hogberg, 04-27-2005 20:07:06  
It works because the hot water goes up and as it cools in goes down and by doing so it does almost as good as it would with a water pump. As far as looseing some water you may have it to full, or as my grand farther always said the old JD-B wasn't running good till you saw a little water comeing out the cap, and thats when it was time to switch it to kero. So its no big deal as long as it doesn't go to low

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