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49 Cub (threw the towel in today)

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GNB

04-30-2005 19:43:31




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I have done all I know to do on this machine. I am learning but here goes the whole story. I had the head off to clean and replace pitted valves. I bought the tractor from a owner who left the tractor outside without a raincap and water went in engine. I did get the rascal very cheap. The head is all I have had off the tractor. I put all valves back in (4 new intake valves, exhaust valves were in excellent shape), head on with new gasket, torqued to spec. Followed all instuctions in manual, rebuilt carb, new plugs,new points,new coil. Getting good fire on all plugs. Timed the distibuter to point directly at #1 at TDC firing position, followed firing order from there to connect rest of plug wires. The tractor will not hit a lick period not even spraying starter fluid in carb. AS I crank it over with starter sounds like its in a slight bind at times when turning over. The battery is new by the way and is 6 volt. The only time I can get anything is if I switch the plug wires around and then it just spits through the carb and somtimes spits a small flame out of the carb. I can not although smell any gas on the plugs at all, which I would think I could as many times as I have turned the tractor over. The carb is getting fuel. I am probally going to carry her to someone down the road that works on lots of IH tractors. I hate to because I wanted to accomplish this job. Thanks for the past posts fellows. If any other Ideas please let me know.

GNB

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todd hamilton

05-01-2005 12:06:53




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
Just visiting from Case board. The "binding" sound sure sounds like a timing issue. Take the plugs out of and crank it with no compression to make sure you don't have a mechanical "bind" somewhere. Recheck your timing and make sure your plug/point gap is proper. Error to the wide on the spec. You gotta have a blue spark, not yellow. If all of that checks you can sometimes start an engine with low compression by pulling it in 3rd gear for more starting RPMs. But given the binding sound, 90% chance it is timing/ignition. A low compression engine with no other issues should crank unusually easy.

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more advice - Todd

05-01-2005 12:10:49




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to todd hamilton , 05-01-2005 12:06:53  
If you conclude mechanical and ignition timing is proper give each cylinder a healthy shot of WD-40 before you put the plugs back in. Safer and easier on the engine than starting fluid.



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George Willer

05-01-2005 09:04:13




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
The true machinists among us may cringe at this idea, but here's what you might do if you pull the head again. Valves won't really seat and give good compression if new valves are simply installed against old seat surfaces. This may save you from having to send the engine to a machine shop... it really does work!

George Willer

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Bigdog

05-01-2005 12:47:43




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to George Willer, 05-01-2005 09:04:13  
Here is the link George was referring to:

Link

You'll have to copy and paste it into your browser.



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Hermit

05-01-2005 07:37:10




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
45 psi is low. Did you remember to have the throttle full open when you did the check? If still low, squirt some oil in the cylinders and see if the pressure comes up.



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GNB

05-01-2005 07:07:32




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
I did a compression check on the engine and looks to be way off. Each Cylinder is the same at 45 PSI. I am guessing that the valves that I put in are not seating properly. I hate to but I guess I need to pull the head off again. I dont think she is going to start with the compression that low. Before putting the valves in I cleaned the seats on the block and they looked fine. Can I resurface the valve seats myself or is it better to pull the engine and let a machine shop do this? The valve seats are in the block on the cub. If I can do this then what is tools That I need? I dont see how the timming is off on the distributor after what I did yesterday. The seats could look good I guess and still be warped to where they are not seating. The springs were the old ones that were in it but all seemed fine. Thanks


GNB

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El Toro

05-01-2005 07:31:26




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 05-01-2005 07:07:32  
You need to have someone that do that valve job
that has the tools and knowledge, even if you have
to pull the engine. Check with your local machine
shop in your area they may be able to do it on site. Are you sure the cam gear is timed correctly? Bring No1 piston up on compression
stroke to TDC. Need to hold your thumb over the plug hole while someone hand cranks the engine over slowly until you feel compression and slowly keep cranking until the notch on the pulley is aligned with the pointer. Both valves on No1 should be closed now. If ok valve timing ok. Hal

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El Toro

05-01-2005 04:00:58




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
That last valve setting is on No2, I noticed the misprint after I posted. Hal



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El Toro

05-01-2005 03:58:44




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
I think you probably should recheck the distributor timing again. You need to bring the
engine up on the compression. Remove No1 plug near the radiator. Hold your thumb over the plug hole until you feel compression as the engine is being turned over and keep turning the egine until the notch in the damper pulley is aligned with the pointer. Make sure you had compression
against your thumb. Now look at the rotor to see where it's pointing. It should be at No1 plug wire in the distributor cap. If it is ok your distributor is timed correctly, if not at No1 you need to pull the distr. and rotate the rotor until it points to No1 in the cap. You also need to see which direction the rotor turns, very important. Your plug wires need to go in the
firing order of the engine in the direction that the rotor turns. After No1, then No3, then No4 and No2. If ok, check your valve clearance by getting No1 on TDC on the compression stroke and recheck that valve clearance. Both valves should be closed. Then do the other valves on NO3, watch the rotor when it gets to No3, then to 4 and 3. Squirt some oil engine oil into each cylinder. Don't cross the wires remove one plug at a time. Should start then. Hal

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James in MO

04-30-2005 21:34:42




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
I had the exact thing with my AC WD right down to everything you have done to the motor as it happened I had two spark plug wires traversed so what was happening is they were firing and burning the gas off so I wasn't smelling it I would just asbout guarantee you have done the same thing I did I was ashamed at first but you know everyone makes mistakes and now I have practically a new motor. Good Luck let us know how it goes.

James

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Bob

04-30-2005 21:09:36




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
As the others have said, you most likely have it out of time".

Here's how to correct the typical "180 degrees out of time" scenario:

From where you have the distributor timed, turn the engine over exactly one turn, until the timing marks again line up. Now the distributor rotor will be pointing 180 degrees from where it was before.

Now, pull the distributor, and then put it back aimed for the #1 firing position, and secure it. Then connect the cap nipples to the spark plugs in firing order.

Then give 'er another try!!! I'll bet she'll fire right up for you!

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Dixieland

04-30-2005 21:09:17




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
Hi G...Hold on there!!!I will help you do this. These may be stupid questions and suggestions but we gotta start somewhere.
Are the plug wires connected to the distributor in proper order. The distributor cap should have a number one(1) indicating cylinder # 1 plug wire location. From there going clockwise facing top of distributor cap is # 2, # 3, & # 4 consecutivly. But, the firing order for connecting at the spark plug end at each cylinder is 1, 3, 4, 2. The front cylinder is # 1 then 2, 3, 4. Double check these and make sure they are correct.
Next thing to check is, do you have the correct spark plugs? You may need a hotter plug to fire the old engine. If all that checks out the logical problem would be in the correct settings of your rocker assembly. If your carb is getting fuel and you have fire at the plugs your valves are not fully opening and or closing at the proper time. The easiest way for me to tell you how to do this is, take the spark plug out of cylinder # 1.Place your thumb over the hole and turn engine untill you feel air being forced out. As soon as you feel the compression shine a flashlight into the spark plug hole and watch for the piston to come to the very top of the stroke. Then do the same for cylinder # 3, then # 4, then #2. If you don't get the compressed air at these points and time, your rocker arm needs to be set so the valves open and close properly. If no compression is there, bring cylinder # 1 piston to top of compression stroke indicated by alignment of timing mark and flywheel mark. When these are aligned exactly, lossen the valve tappets untill the # 1 exhaust and intake valves are completly closed. With a feeler gauge adjust the tappets for .014" clearence between the tappet and valve. Then turn the crank handle engine for Your next compression stroke which will be cylinder # 3 and continue to # 4 then #2.
Double check your manual for the proper clearance on your valves but .014" should be ok to get er runnin.
I know this is about as clear as mud but it is a start. If you find these suggestions not to be the problem, post back and we will write some more...Good Luck...Dixieland

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gene (Missouri)

04-30-2005 20:58:46




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
1) Ignition timing is off - most likely.
2) Compression test. If compression on all four cylinders, vacuum leak at intake manifold or gasket between carb and manifold.
3) No compression - valves.


Gene.



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Nat

04-30-2005 20:54:23




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
No offense, but I have a sneaky suspicion that something you THINK is correct, isn't. Some piece of advice you THINK you're following to the letter, you aren't.

Not having a good working knowledge of how an engine works, and then trying to work from vague text descriptions of repair procedures... Well, it's a recipe for where you are right now...

Most likely, your timing is sooooo far off now.

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P Backus

04-30-2005 20:47:29




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
Is the intake manifold gasket good? There should be a vacuum at the carburetor when cranking so the pistons can draw the fuel/air mixture up into the cylinders. Are the initial settings on the carb correct, especially the fuel screw (more toward the bottom of the carb)?
Paul



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Don L C

04-30-2005 20:29:35




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
If its firing back through the carb.sounds like "way" out of time...take #1 plug (front near radiator)...timing mark comming up....with your thumb over plug hole turn engine until you feel compression....rotor should be pointing at #1 wire in cap.....if pointing straight across the other way, it's 180* off.....



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Phlogiston

04-30-2005 20:19:28




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
Are you getting a good, STEADY stream of gas at the carb? Pull the line and let it drain into a can to test.

Phlogiston



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jossette

04-30-2005 19:56:30




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 Re: 49 Cub (threw the towel in today) in reply to GNB, 04-30-2005 19:43:31  
as the cowman said before,

is the distributor a 180 degrees off???



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