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Farmall M

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Nositri

06-29-2005 11:57:21

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My M has driven me nuts with the fuel problem, and I've finally gotten that taken care of and then the carburetor was acting up. Turns out it was the float so I got that all taken care of and now the starter won't grip the ring gear. It just grinds and grinds. It doesn't look like the ring gear is really that worn out and the starter is brand new!! Now I can't start this freaking thing without splitting the tractor and replacing the ring gear. I do not have the tools or time or knowledge of the tractor to replace the gear anyway. Then I thought wait. . . what about crank starting it. That would work, but I don't have a hand crank and the shaft that the crank attaches to is missing the pin that goes through it or whatever goes on it and not to mention the shaft is really really really hard to turn. I think that with a little bit of grease and penetrating fluid I could free it up and get it turning. For all I know the hand crank was never used. What parts am I missing though to get the crank working. All I have is the shaft sticking out with 2 wholes in it. I guess maybe something goes over that with a pin in it or something I don't know and also where can I locate these parts and the crank? I'm taking any suggestions on the ring gear or hand cranking it anything at all. The frustration is really getting to me!!

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captaink

06-30-2005 06:29:13

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Nositri, 06-29-2005 11:57:21

I'm curious as to why you replaced the starter.

Make sure you have the correct starter. There were power units that had the starter bolted on the front of the flywheel, therefore they are wired to spin the opposite way that the M starter would spin. They look the same and will bolt up, but will act exactly as you describe.

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williamf

06-30-2005 05:38:35

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Nositri, 06-29-2005 11:57:21

You can check to see if it's a worn spot on the flywheel by turning the engine a quarter turn or so by hand and seeing then does it engage. I've been starting my H this way for a long time. (Just until I get around to splitting it, doncha know.)
Before I got a hand crank I learned the easy way to turn it a little is to engage the pto and turn the pto shaft with a pipe wrench. Wouldn't want to do that often, don't want to chew up the splines, but once or twice as part of troubleshooting...
Good Luck, Wm

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williamf

06-30-2005 05:41:55

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P.S. in reply to williamf, 06-30-2005 05:38:35

Here's what really worn flywheel teeth look like.

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THEkyroastnear

06-29-2005 21:44:05

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Nositri, 06-29-2005 11:57:21

sounds to me like the bendix is bad on your starter .you may know it as a starter drive. watch yourself trying to hand crank a M if it backfires thru. carb or kicks back any you may get your arm broke .dont wrap your thumb on the crank cup the handle withyour whole hand good luck

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Lee Wv

06-29-2005 20:04:11

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Nositri, 06-29-2005 11:57:21

I would also suspect the "new"starter first.It sounds like the drive gear is bad.It is supposed to grip 1 way and slip the other!If the wrong gear is installed it will not grip!It sounds like the gear on yours is for a starter that installs from front to back!Also,I don't know about the flywheel but the clutch comes out the bottom without splitting the tractor,I suspect the flywheel will come out the same way.

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nope

06-30-2005 03:21:47

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Lee Wv, 06-29-2005 20:04:11

Have to split er!

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Don L C

06-29-2005 13:44:21

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Nositri, 06-29-2005 11:57:21

CAUTION --- Hand cranking a "M" can be painful !!If you decide to crank it be sure to keep your thumb on the same side of the crank handle as your fingers !!!!! !Ms can kick very hard..

Best idea is pull start it ,tractor in 4th gear....can't help you on any mech. work ,never had to do any on ours.....good luck Don

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Pharmall

06-29-2005 13:39:01

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Nositri, 06-29-2005 11:57:21

I agree with scruffyia. Suspect the "new" starter first. Don't know where these things get rebuilt nowadays, but I've had a couple of "new" starters the last few years that were bad out of the box.

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scruffyia

06-29-2005 13:32:22

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Nositri, 06-29-2005 11:57:21

Are you sure the brand new starter is still working correctly??? I haven't had my M's starter off but I'm assuming it has an electonic silenoid to push the starter gear into ring gear before the starter gear starts to rotate. If the silenoid isn't working correctly the starter gear doesn't engage the starter gear into the ring gear and it grinds. (had more than one car the starter silenoid has gone out on...)

If the ring gear looks fine it probably is. I'd be pulling the starter off and having it checked out and fixed or replaced.

And like I said, I haven't had my M's starter apart so maybe it doesn't have a silenoid, but I imagine it does. And I'd make 100% sure the starter was working properly before I'd try hand cranking an M. Even if I could hand crank it cold I doubt I could hand crank it hot.

Just be sure to push it all the way through a compression stroke. If you get to the peak of the compression stroke and don't make it all the way through the engine is going to push the crank arm back at you.

later,
scruffy

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captaink

06-30-2005 06:26:23

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Re: Farmall M in reply to scruffyia, 06-29-2005 13:32:22

Just an FYI- A, B, C, H, & M starters from the factory were "spin in" drives, however later tractors (like 460 & 560) did use a solenoid to pull the drive into the flywheel first. I�m not sure where the switch came though.

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KRUSS

06-29-2005 12:28:35

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Nositri, 06-29-2005 11:57:21

As long as the motor is not stuck, why not pull start it? A 100,000 JD people can't all be wrong.

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Wayne Swenson

06-29-2005 12:16:19

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Nositri, 06-29-2005 11:57:21

The shaft for the crank should have a pin in it;mif it is missing, use a 1/4" bolt & nut (I think that is the right size) as a temporary pin. There is a grease zerk on the bottom of the casting just above the front tires. Use a hammer to tap in on the shaft; use a pry bar to pry back on the large round sleeve that contacts the crankshaft. Work the unit back & forth, rotate the assembly, and soon it will turn freely.
I have an extra crank; where are you located?? Look in the photo & classified ads to find one also.

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Janicholson

06-29-2005 15:11:17

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Re: Farmall M in reply to Wayne Swenson, 06-29-2005 12:16:19

The starter uses an Inertia powered engagement mechanism. The starter motor spins with a fierce increase in speed. The drive pinion does not spin as rapidly, and as a result it spirals out against the end of its travel and is engaged with the ring gear. I suspect either stickie lube on the spiral, or no lube. Clean with a spray electrical cleaner, and usw some 10-30 on the spiral of the starter drive. A weak battery/bad or small cables can prevent enough startup inertia. It will go.
Jim Nicholson

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