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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Deisel injector pump

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Richard Fazio

07-11-2005 17:43:38




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My friends deisel is not running right. We changed the fuel filters and bleed the system as per the book. It started and switched over to deisel and ran for a while and stalled. There was no pressure on the fuel pressure gauge, even when running. We bleed it a number of times. Then we'll see the gauge come up for a minute and go back down to nothing. It appears to me there is air in the system but we can't seem to get it out. By the way it had no pressure before we changed the filters and that's why we changed them. It did run on deisel but not very well. It would miss and break up on deisel. Am I missing something or are we looking at a pump rebuild?

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Ron in Nebr

07-12-2005 23:00:48




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 Re: Deisel injector pump in reply to Richard Fazio, 07-11-2005 17:43:38  
I tried to post last night but it didn't come up, so here goes again.....

Check the simple things first, like the screen mentioned below. It's in the inlet fitting on the primary pump. Also, wouldn't hurt to make sure the petcock on the bottom of the deisel tank is open! The fuel on these goes through the water separator, then the primary(rear) filter, then through the primary pump, then to the secondary filter, and then to the main injection pump where the guage is.

If you have fuel at the bleeder on top of the primary filter you're ok up to that point. Sometimes if the tank is low it won't gravity bleed through the primary filter.

Pull the output line off at the primary pump and see if there's fuel coming out there while it's running on gas.

If not, then there's problems in the primary pump.

There's a pressure relief valve in the primary pump that could be stuck.

The gears in the primary pump are driven by and secured to the shafts by small roll pins. One of these could be sheared.

In a worst-case scenario, you may have the same problem I had on my 650D. The primary pump is driven by a small square hex that's machined onto the rear of the governor shaft inside the main pump. On mine, this square hex was rounded off and the primary pump didn't turn. I had to pull the whole thing apart, weld and file the square hex back onto the rear of the governor shaft, and then it all worked fine again. Had to make almost all the gaskets myself, but some of the seals are still available from IH and other places. Good luck!

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Geoff NY

07-12-2005 15:07:08




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 Re: Deisel injector pump in reply to Richard Fazio, 07-11-2005 17:43:38  
Don"t overlook the small "screen" filter on the pump. These sometimes can be the culprit when you have low pressure.



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Richard Fazio

07-12-2005 09:58:36




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 Re: Deisel injector pump in reply to Richard Fazio, 07-11-2005 17:43:38  
Thanks for all the info guys. The gauge is good from what I can tell. It came up a few times. Also I loosened it up and actually took it off once while running and nothing came out of the hole. That makes me think I have no pressure. It sounds like the primary pump is where to start.



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BULLDOG

07-12-2005 09:04:02




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 Re: Deisel injector pump in reply to Richard Fazio, 07-11-2005 17:43:38  
I RECENTLY REBUILT THE PRIMARY PUMP ON MY 400D. I WAS ABLE TO PURCHASE ALL THE PROPER SEALS AND GASKETS FROM JOHN AT DIESEL SPECIALITIES IN SIOUX CITY, IOWA. THEY ONLY COST $26 AND IT WORKS GREAT. LACK OF PRESSURE MAY NOT ALWAYS BE THE PUMP OR THE GAUGE. I HAVE SEEN THE SNUBBER JUST AHEAD OF THE GAUGE BE PLUGGED. TEMPORARILY REPLACE IT WITH A STANDARD COUPLING JUST TO CHECK.



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Farmall Frank

07-12-2005 06:08:58




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 Re: Deisel injector pump in reply to Richard Fazio, 07-11-2005 17:43:38  
The following is an assumption that the M is similar to my 400D.

I took the primary pump off my 400D about 2 weeks ago to replace the shaft seal, which was leaking into the injector pump. The whole effort was fairly easy. The mentioned cover has a very thin gasket under it, so that the gearing can be close and personal with the cover. I used some 1/128" thin stuff I got from a gasket supplier.

The only hard thing was mating the primary back to the injector pump --- you need two gaskets, one that fits unside and one outside the structure. They both need to seal at the same time when you bolt the primary back to the injector pump. I had a bit of difficulty there as it seems the internal gasket is thicker than the external one, at least it was that way on mine. I tried various combinations of gaskets until I got one to work. It works great now.

Also, I had a bad pressure gauge. I replaced it and had plenty of pressure. You might have the same problem.

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It's a Super M

07-11-2005 17:44:38




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 Re: Deisel injector pump in reply to Richard Fazio, 07-11-2005 17:43:38  
Sorry, I forgot to mention it's a Super M.



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P Backus

07-11-2005 19:13:03




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 Re: Deisel injector pump in reply to It's a Super M, 07-11-2005 17:44:38  
The injection pump is fed by a "charge pump", which is a gear pump mounted on the back of the injection pump. It is what gives you fuel pressure on the gauge. I'm betting that if you were able to get that little pump rebuilt or replaced, your injection pump would be fine. Now i don't know where to get it fixed. Possibly a machine shop could mill the cover and you could get a better fit between the cover and the gears.....
Just some ideas.

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Richard Fazio

07-12-2005 05:17:52




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 Re: Deisel injector pump in reply to P Backus, 07-11-2005 19:13:03  
Thanks for the responce. I was looking through the book on the injector and saw the primary pump. I didn't know if the gauge was feed by it. The service manual I have doesn't mention the gauge. Thanks for the info, at least I have somewhere to start.



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