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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels

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riverbend

07-30-2005 18:49:56




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How many wheel weights do I need to take the place of the calcium chloride in the rear tires on my H ? The valve stem is leaking again...

Thanks

Greg




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RustyFarmall

07-31-2005 12:25:14




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to riverbend, 07-30-2005 18:49:56  
O.K., I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. Weight is weight, period. It makes no difference if the weight comes from cast iron wheel weights, cast iron suitcase weights hanging on the frame, or water in the tire. Any of those methods will give the same results and increse traction to the same effect. The real reason that fluid is used in the tires is because it is less expensive than cast iron, and if the weight is in the tire it won't be in the way of attaching, or mounting implements on to the tractor. The one great advantage of fluid in the tires is that it will give greater stability to the tractor when it is being operated on steep hills, simply because the weight is closer to the ground. The operators manual for my McCormick #31 loader recommends installing a minimum of 2 sets of rear wheel weights, and implies that 3 sets are best, or the equivalant in tire fluid.

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CNKS

07-31-2005 09:16:47




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to riverbend, 07-30-2005 18:49:56  
The point can be argued forever, if it was mine and I wanted fluid, I would change the tube. I know nothing about pulling. One point not brought up with one you are using for farming, is that you want the weight and the power balanced. If you are pulling a plow or some other power using implement, you want the tires to begin slipping at the time the engine is at max rated rpm, just before or at the same time you begin to lose power -- I am NOT saying this applies to pulling, only pulling a tillage implement. My Dad's H had one set of weights and fluid in the tires. When pulling a plow, that is the way it worked. I have driven other tractors that were set up the same way. I have also driven those that were under-weighted, meaning that there was far too much slippage.

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Mac

07-31-2005 05:39:12




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to riverbend, 07-30-2005 18:49:56  
I know I'd like to find a link to an in-depth study on weights vs fluid. All I ever see is opinions.



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CNKS

07-31-2005 10:36:14




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to Mac, 07-31-2005 05:39:12  
Not a lot of detail, but the link says there is no difference for agricultural purposes. Page down to "Type of Weight"--also has info on CaCl2.



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OPSU Kid

07-31-2005 05:36:31




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to riverbend, 07-30-2005 18:49:56  

Weigh the tractor at the elevator then pull your calicum. Go back(after hours)and hang weights untill your satisfied. I supose your farming with it. Calicum is good for farming, but limits your weight classes in pulls.



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Dave in CT

07-31-2005 00:52:07




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to riverbend, 07-30-2005 18:49:56  
So, how does one fix the leaky stem? I assume it's a stem to an inner tube. Does this mean a new tube or are there other fixes besides just replacing the valve stem core? Would one of those fix-a-flat materials like slime around the sealing surface of the valve stem core do the job? I've got a leak in a fluid-filled tire so slow I can't find anything by spraying the tire and stem with a water-and-dish-detergent mix.

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P Backus

07-31-2005 11:57:02




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to Dave in CT, 07-31-2005 00:52:07  
Dave in my experience the leak is usually not in or around the valve stem, but that"s where it shows up because that"s where the "hole" in the rim is. In other words, whatever is leaking out of the tube travels around the inside of the tire until it can get out, ie, the valve stem hole. Also, you"ll never find a leak in a fluid filled tire with soap and water because that relies on air coming out to make bubbles, not liquids. If it was mine, I"d get the fluid pumped out and take the tube out, fill it with air to find the leak. Then the soap and water will work. It"s got to come apart to get fixed anyway, unless you are convinced that it is the valve core. If so, why not just replace the valve core?
Paul

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Ronald

07-30-2005 19:37:48




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to riverbend, 07-30-2005 18:49:56  
I have 3 sets on my h and it works great even with a loader handling round bales.



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old

07-30-2005 19:09:59




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to riverbend, 07-30-2005 18:49:56  
Can't help as far as how many but fluid works better the any weight will ever work. Fluid puts the weight on the grond and weights put the weight on the rear end and tractor.



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colekicker

07-31-2005 00:44:30




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to old, 07-30-2005 19:09:59  
I am going to have to agree with everyone else that has disagreed with you. Weight is weight. The more mass that is applied the better the traction will be. Fluid is good for lowering your center of gravity when the level does not exceet center of the tire. Tire pressure is going to affect you beating someone who has suitcase weights compared to liquid weight. Of course, tread pattern, tire size, track conditions and weight displacement across the chassis will also affect the traction levels along with hitch height and the angle of the pull.

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ChadS

07-31-2005 09:07:23




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to colekicker, 07-31-2005 00:44:30  
Id have to say fluid is better in this case. The fluid will put the weight on the tire tread itself, and not on the axle, crushing the tire down, instead of putting weight on the tread itself, and putting a more heavier foot print on the tread bars of the tire, wheel weights,, just make the frame heavier, and really affects the tire tread, lets say you dont have enough tire pressure with wheel weights,, the tire will buckle under and create a crown in the track cause it pushes the center of the tread upwards towards the rim, the fluid, will prevent this from happening cause it has more weight structure inbetween the tire and the rim and not allow so much of a buckle of the diameter of the tire. Pullers do use weights to make fast changes in weight to go from class to class, but if they ever stayed in one class, and set up a tractor with liquid weights in the tires, the liquid tire will hook harder than ones with wheel weights, then use the suitcase weights to balance the frame to create leverage to keep the sled moving. JMHO,, ChadS

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colekicker

07-31-2005 09:24:55




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to ChadS, 07-31-2005 09:07:23  
I agree with you to an extent. The water will help in preventing the center of the tire from cupping, but if there is not enough air pressure, the tire will still cup.



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ChadS

07-31-2005 09:41:20




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to colekicker, 07-31-2005 09:24:55  
But wont be as soft as a tire with just air. the water helps hold the tire from buckling, and yes, any tire can buckle in the center, older tires dont so easily as newer ones, a bit stiffer, and thats why pullers seek them out so much. I belive if you know how to set up a new tire so it does not bend the bars back so much, it would work on about any surface, loose tracks will dig, but if you had the liquid in em, and drive it and not just go out an run wide open, it will hook up easire than one with wheel weights. Ive often thought of filling my cut tires bout 1/2 way up and try it, My 15.5's on a 16 inch rim, can buckle the centers at 13 psi, at 14 psi they dig the track too hard and well, hello China!! Tire pressure is relitive to track conditions, harder tracks, Ill run 12-13psi, and on looser tracks, 13.5-14 and run a set of wheel weights to help bite the ground, but, it usually bites me,, and mess up the balace of the frame, if I can get the tires to hook, and leave the weights for balance purposes only, Id have it made, only thing I can think of to do that is to add some liquid weight to the wheels so it will have a heavier footprint, and not affect the side wall of the tire so much from overweighting the axle. I do belivethat water will make the tire harder inbetween the tire casing, and the rim, air, can move to the top of the tire, and ballon it sightly, where water holds in place cause gravity holds it there, and can take more pressure in the cases where it can buckle,,, ChadS

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old

07-31-2005 07:25:58




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to colekicker, 07-31-2005 00:44:30  
Well as I said pullers don't use fluid because its not east to change weight with fluid. but as far as real tracktion fluid does a lot more the wheel weights. The fluid put most if not all its weight right on the point of the ground where the tire is doing its work and wheel weights put it all over the rear end etc. I've done both and to really get the rubber to the ground fluid is the way to go. For pulling on the track wheel weights are the way to go.

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colekicker

07-31-2005 09:28:32




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to old, 07-31-2005 07:25:58  
Ok, so if we have weight all over the rearend, where does it get displaced? Not in the air. Mass is mass. When you run the tractor on a set of scales, just back the rear 2 tires on. See if you have the same amount of weight displaced about the foot print of both tires with air and with water. Its still the same amount of surface contact, but can still be the same amount of weight.



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old

07-31-2005 15:03:20




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to colekicker, 07-31-2005 09:28:32  
Yes the weight is the same but there is just something about the fluid that will make the tires pull better then just useing wheel weights. I have tried both and for what I do the fluid is the only way I'll go since the wheel weights didn't do half as good.



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Shoeie

07-30-2005 20:45:00




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to old, 07-30-2005 19:09:59  
Have to disagree with you, pound for pound
weights will pull better. Without fluid in the tire the tire can flatten out on the ground
more which allows for better traction, just ask the big tractor puller boys.



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old

07-30-2005 21:27:56




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to Shoeie, 07-30-2005 20:45:00  
Well figure it this way which pulls better tracks or tires? Well with fluid in your tires you put all not part of the weight on the tread which is on the ground not on just the rear end. I have done both and for X number of LBS of wheel weight and X number of LBS of fluid the fluid will do more then any wheel weight will. Only reason why guys that pull all the time use weights is because they go on and off easy fluid is hard to remove fast.

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Lance R.

07-31-2005 05:40:49




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to old, 07-30-2005 21:27:56  
Every tractor puller I've talked to agrees with old and the only reason they don't have fluid is that they want to pull in multiple classes and to get into a lower weight class would be impossible with the fluid in their tires.



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RAW in IA

07-30-2005 19:23:31




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to old, 07-30-2005 19:09:59  
I'm trying to figure out your logic there. If wheel wieghts are bolted directly to the wheel how can they be any different than fluid in the tires? I can see if they are bolted to the frame of the tractor there could be a difference, but not when on the wheels.



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Lance R.

07-31-2005 06:30:37




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to RAW in IA, 07-30-2005 19:23:31  
It has to do with the construction of the tire. When the tire is crushed like it is in tractor pulls, the tire tread should be flat to allow for better traction. With air only the tire won't have the same amount of weight on the center portion of the tread because the tire will tend to cup up just a little bit causing some traction to be lost in the center of the tire. Fluid puts the weight on that center portion, however little it is, which can make a difference because the cupping is reduced and more traed is on the ground.

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Lance R.

07-30-2005 19:41:55




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to RAW in IA, 07-30-2005 19:23:31  
You will get better traction with fluid because the weight goes completely to the tread of the tire. You get a better print. Thats why I always pull in the 8,500 lbs class with my 560 with fluid in the rears and have never been beaten. Everyone else hangs weights and can't get the same traction.



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Dave in MN

07-31-2005 16:28:03




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to Lance R., 07-30-2005 19:41:55  
NEVER been beaten????

Never seen a round /suitcase weight ruin the rim like leaking fluid will. Not a question of IF it will ruin it, but WHEN will it ruin it.



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colekicker

07-30-2005 19:09:48




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to riverbend, 07-30-2005 18:49:56  
Water is 8 lbs per gallon. I think calcium chloride is 9.2 lbs per gallon. I'd say have three sets of wheel weights and you should be fine at 300 lbs per set. That would easily take the place of the calcium chloride you have. Plus it makes it easier to handle the tire if you do have a flat.



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Janicholson

07-31-2005 09:52:20




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 Re: wheel weights vs fluid in H rear wheels in reply to colekicker, 07-30-2005 19:09:48  
Two items: The valve stem will only leak fluid if the fluid is above the location of the stem. soap will not work to indicate leak. The valves have two parts, one that is used to admit air only, and one for liquid. They can be disassembled. Use a commercial electronic (not magnetic) stud finder to find the level of fluid in the tire. Jack the axle till all pressure is off the ground. Rotate the tire till the stem is well above the level of liquid. Let out all air pressure (gently enough not to squirt fluid if the tire is almost at max liquid). Remove both components of valve and replace them. Look (with a hand lense/magnifier) at the mating surfaces in the stem to see if they are corroded. If they are, it may be new tube time. if a little ugly, light 1000 grit Si-carbide paper can be used sparingly to polish mating areas. install new core/valve snugly, and then clean up the surrounding rim. Wipe this area with laquer thinner (unless painted with a disolvable paint, in which case use soap/water and let dry). Spray this area with a spray can product called urethane clear coat for clear coating repair paint jobs, from a commercial autobody supplier. if you don't like the glossy look, use 000 steel wool to reduce the shine to look like it should.
Good luck, I have fixed three and replaced the tube in two. that were leaking/rusting.
Jim Nicholson

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