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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Farmall B - no spark.

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Dave H (MI)

10-04-2005 11:00:26




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Still waiting for my manuals. I should probably tell you that, while I can fix a lot of things, I am not a mechanical genius when it comes to engines. Really need a book for reference and a mentor to get thru a lot of it. The little Farmall B that I dragged home ran good when I looked at it. I drove it home thru a driving rain and left it on the trailer all night and it started and ran good the next day. Here I am a week and a half later and it turns over good with a fresh battery but looks like no spark. This is a 12 volt conversion. Only thing I have done was to unbolt this little can-like thing above the distributor so that I could read the engine serial number. This part connects to the center of the distributor with a heavy wire. I am sorry, but I don't have a clue what it is called without a book to look it up in(I AM learning but it won't happen fast). Anyhow, is there a likely cause for this or do I just need to run all the wiring and look for a problem? Any diagnostics I can try to short cut to the problem? I have a voltage meter. Almost forgot, the can-like thing is feeling pretty warm after only a few trys at starting it. I was wondering if this is normal too? Looking for a little help!

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El Toro

10-07-2005 19:28:16




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 Re: Farmall B - no spark. in reply to Dave H (MI), 10-04-2005 11:00:26  
I still think it was from the rainstorm and the ignition getting soaked. Hal



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Dave H (MI)

10-05-2005 06:21:43




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 Re: Farmall B - no spark. in reply to Dave H (MI), 10-04-2005 11:00:26  
Thanks everybody for the great responses and help!
I copied it all into my archives and will try it as soon as work and weather permit. I'll let you know what happens.

Dave



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El Toro

10-04-2005 12:36:52




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 Re: Farmall B - no spark. in reply to Dave H (MI), 10-04-2005 11:00:26  
I think your ignition was soaked from that rain storm. You need to inspect the distr for any water as Rusty has suggested. It could have penetrated your plug wires too. Only remove one wire at a time and see if any water is present.
If there is, dry it with a clean rag or towel and reconnect and repeat this with other plug wires.
Check the coil wire where it connects to that can like devise "your coil" and see if it's wet and where the other end of the wire is connected to the distributor cap. Keep the tractor in full
sunlite it will help with drying. Hal

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John T

10-04-2005 12:17:19




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 Re: Farmall B - no spark. in reply to Dave H (MI), 10-04-2005 11:00:26  
Dave that can like thing is the ignition coil and provided its good and you ran the big center coil wire out of it to the distributor cap, it should still produce spark regardless if you accidentally got the other two lil wires reversed. As you will see below the coil itslef and its coil wire out of its big center terminal ought to produce a spark to the frame ground even if there were no distributor cap at all. So long as the points are good and open n close and theres no shorts such as a bad condensor or wires, the coils center terminal wire should produce a spark each time the points were closed but then open.

If the coil gets so hot you can barely keep your hand on it, I also suspect it may be a 6 volt coil on a 12 volt system. If so, it will run hot PLUS the points will burn up n carbon n quit functioning very soon.

I believe I would first suspect then inspect n gap the ignition points (see below) for the cause of no fire,,,,, ,,,then if its a 6 volt coil either add a series voltage dropping (12 to 6) ballast resistor in the ignition circuit ahead of the coil (between it and the ignition switches output) or else get a new full 12 volt rated coil.

Theres a chance 12 volts on a 6 volt coil may have ruined the coil and/or the points are burned up or the condensor has failed. CHECK AND GAP THE POINTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This may be way more then you need but to save me time I will post my Standard Troubleshooting procedure for non sparking, but I suspect you have points n maybe a condensor and maybe a coil problem if shes a 6 volt ran ar 12 and got too hot..... ..... ..... ..


TROUBLESHOOTING A BATTERY POWERED EXTERNAL COIL TYPE IGNITION SYSTEM:

PRELIMINARY CHECKS:

(A) To see if it happens to be a cap n rotor problem and to see if at least the coil is firing, remove the coil wire from the distributor (leave coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch from tractor iron, turn her on n crank her over, and see if she jumps that gap with a good visible blue spark????? If so but the plug wire ends (from wire end to 1/8 inch to frame) or the plugs themselves don’t fire, its a cap n rotor or plug wire problem. If the coil wire isnt even sparking, see below.

(B) Next open the cap and see that the points are gapped correct and indeed opening and closing as the engine is cranked and the distributor shaft rotates and MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY !!!!! !!!!! If so, running a point file between them to clean them up might make her run again HOWEVER that’s only a temporary cure, so if that cleaning makes her spark, INSTALL N GAP NEW POINTS. In the event they appear good but only gray oxide coated, non abrasively clean/buff/polish them using say a dollar bill or shop cloth etc. and see what happens.

MORE TROUBLESHOOTING IF ALL THE ABOVE STILL FAILS TO MAKE HER SPARK

1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,, ,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.

2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source attached to the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test. 3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,, ,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,, ,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,, ,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,, ,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,, ,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,, ,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,, ,theres voltage present on distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,, ,voltage on coils low side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,, ,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,, ,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,, ,,coil has continuituy.

You may luck out n just need a new set of points. If the coil wire fires (see above) and the plug wire ends to 1/8 from frame but NOT the plugs, they are baddddd ddddd . Check them BOTH.

Good Luck n God Bless, post back any questions and your findings and any questions.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer who usually lurks over on the Mother Deere boards versus over here on the “dark side”.

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RustyFarmall

10-04-2005 11:40:06




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 Re: Farmall B - no spark. in reply to Dave H (MI), 10-04-2005 11:00:26  
Dave, you may be over-diagnosing this problem. Janicholson gave some good pointers. Since you did have the coil off, make sure that those wires are not broken or loose, the wiring on a 60 year old tractor can be a bit fragile. Also, it is quite possible that some moisture did get into the ignition system, remove the distributor cap and wipe inside with a dry, clean towel, also, the contact points may have a bit of dirt on them, hold them just slightly open with your fingers and insert a dry piece of paper in between the points, let the points close, and then drag the paper out. You may want to repeat this procedure 2 or 3 times. I have actually used a one dollar bill to accomplish this, because that was what I had. Put everything back together and I think it will now start and run.

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Janicholson

10-04-2005 12:31:55




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 Re: Farmall B - no spark. in reply to RustyFarmall, 10-04-2005 11:40:06  
Insight on the dollar!
The paper used in U.S. paper money is bonded together in a way that reduces the tearing and production of loose fibers. Dollars folded and pulled through poins are much less likely to leave a bit of torn paper between the points.
One of my Mechanics Professor was an Indy car mechanic in the late fiftys and a very practical man. mony always was the last thing between two contacts. We were alsp told to polish them with the motion of the abrasive in a circular random pattern to prevent ridges from one falling into those in the other contact. Fun stuff.
JimN

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Janicholson

10-04-2005 11:19:19




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 Re: Farmall B - no spark. in reply to Dave H (MI), 10-04-2005 11:00:26  
The can like thing is the ignition coil. it may be the issue causing no spark. However these may help.

There are three wires connected to the coil.
1 comes from the ignition switch (maybe through a resistor)then to the positive side of the coil.
2 connects to the negative side of the coil and attaches to the side of the distributor with a small nut arrangement.
3 is a larger wire connecting the coil tower (plastic nipple protrusion) to the distributor cap center.

If the coil is warming up, it is getting voltage. If the coil is marked 12v for resistor only, or words to that effect, it needs the resistor in the supply line. The resistor is usually a ceramic block about thumb sized but square. It has one wire in (from switch) and one wire out to coil +.

If it does not have this resistor and the coil is original (6v) it has been getting too much voltage and may be burnt out. If the coil is for use with a resistor, and there is none this will cause the coil to go bad.

Using a coil from another 12 volt machine will work to test the fix. Wire it as described above.

The points (inside the distributor may be out of adjustment, they should be set to .020" when their rubbing block is on the high point of the ignition cam (inside the dstributor).
Good luck with it. JimN

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Nat

10-04-2005 13:59:51




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 Re: Farmall B - no spark. in reply to Janicholson, 10-04-2005 11:19:19  
The resistor is a little white rectangular thingy that's made of porcelain, like a toilet.



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Janicholson

10-05-2005 06:54:05




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 Re: Farmall B - no spark. in reply to Nat, 10-04-2005 13:59:51  
It may be (probable) there are other designs. Ford even uses a resistance wire in the loom to do the job. (it was not a good idea)



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