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CHEAP GAS!

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JEFF P

10-21-2005 08:57:01

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I had a retired farmer tell me the other day that if you mix a small amount of diesel with your 89oct pump gas that it would reduce the amount of pre-ignition or pinging under heavy load on some of these older machines. (SM with 281 motor). Can anyone add to this or was he just pullen my leg?

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Allan/NCA

10-21-2005 18:24:37

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to JEFF P, 10-21-2005 08:57:01

My Dad would talk about during WWII the gas was at times was so poor quality that the neighbor was constantly burning valves on an AC model M crawler. With the war valves were impossible to get so to keep the tractor running he would mix 1 gal of diesel to like 5 gal of gas and he did up into 60's when he retired even when the gas was better. I was told that it just didn't burn as hot. Well with the price of fuel that people are mixing cheap cooking oil with diesel to cut costs, I guess in Europe they have done it for years.

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Nat

10-21-2005 12:02:14

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to JEFF P, 10-21-2005 08:57:01

I was about ready to throw the BS flag myself, but now that I think about it, there may be a bit of science involved.

It's true that adding diesel to gas doesn't increase the OCTANE level, but diesel fuel burns much more slowly than gasoline, and requires much higher heat and pressure conditions to ignite. My thought is that the diesel "retards" the gasoline, making it less likely to preignite.

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John T

10-21-2005 11:12:37

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to JEFF P, 10-21-2005 08:57:01

Jeff, I dont see how adding diesel may reduce pre ignition?? I see raising the octane (making it harder to ignite) as doing that, but adding diesel may actually LOWER it a bit.

I guess it may serve somewhat as a top end valve lubricant and cushion to reduce the "valve to seat impact" sort of what lead may do, but I just dont see it as reducing pre ignition !!!!! !!

Heck if I know

John T

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Allan in NE

10-21-2005 09:35:22

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to JEFF P, 10-21-2005 08:57:01

Jeff,

His heart is in the right place, but his facts are a little scrambled tho.

Add a gallon of gasoline to a tankful of #2 diesel and it will jump her up to #1 for winter use. 'Spose this is what he is thinkin'?

Allan

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EL Toro

10-21-2005 10:03:49

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to Allan in NE, 10-21-2005 09:35:22

The Germans have been using that recipe for years.
Hal

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Janicholson

10-21-2005 09:54:21

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to Allan in NE, 10-21-2005 09:35:22

Unless your M has an actual compression pressure over 150 PSI (It could if it is modified---LP head, firedome, shaved head), in other words, a race tractor, it wont need more octane. the other posts are correct it is not going to do the intended job. It will smoke more and carbon up the system. If the chambers are deposit filled from years of operation on leaded fuel, it could have glowing deposits causing detonation/ pre ignition. THis usually is indicated by a drastic tendency to run onn when shut off.
Make sure it is in time and the compression pressure (with an accurate compression tester) is normal for a SM ) is between 95 and 120psi If I remember correctly. JimN

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chadd

10-21-2005 09:24:35

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to JEFF P, 10-21-2005 08:57:01

I have never heard of that one. . . Diesel fuel doesn't contain any extra octane value (if I am correct, diesel is measured by its cetane value), it doesn't actually explode unless highly compressed (which it wouldn't be in a Super M engine), so I wouldn't think that it would do anything. I can't understand how that would work, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't work. I am sure someone with more knowledge than I can give you a hand with this one. I wouldn't think that Super M's would have trouble with pinging though either. Their compression ratio isn't that high that they would require premium gas. If it has pre-ignition, that would sound like a lean fuel-air mixture, moreso than an octane issue. I don't own a Super M though, so I am probably wrong.

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Bob M

10-21-2005 09:23:01

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to JEFF P, 10-21-2005 08:57:01

He's pullin' yer leg! Adding diesel to gas has just the opposite effect on it's octane rating.

Unless of course you add so much diesel the motor won't start. Then pre-ignition is completely eliminated!

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JB2

10-21-2005 14:31:56

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to Bob M, 10-21-2005 09:23:01

Hi All, once about 30 years ago, our supplier of Diesel fuel and gasoline had a new truck driver delivering while the regular driver was on vacation. To make a long story short our gas and Diesel tanks are back to back, the driver filled the Diesel tank first then switch the hose on the truck end and put the nozzle directly into the gas tank filler without draining the hose and start filling the gas tank. The regular driver always filled gas tank first then Diesel because a little gas in Diesel wasn't a problem. When we start using that gas in the pickup truck the engine would cough and sputter and miss till it got warmed up.

So Diesel in gas is NOT recommended.

JB2

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Randy-IA

10-22-2005 23:10:20

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Re: CHEAP GAS! in reply to JB2, 10-21-2005 14:31:56

Hi , That happened to me at a service station ( remember those ? ) When they filled the underground tanks they had put a couple hundred gallon's of diesel in the gas tank . I was the lucky one one to find this out with my hipo 350 chevy . Couldn't even make it to the road from the pump's . We had to drop the fuel tank right there and drain it and flush the fuel system . They had to eat that cost and the hundreds of gallon's of wasted gas/fuel mixture that had to be pumped out of the underground tank . There were no lasting harmful effect's on my engine for the next couple of year's till I sold it . ...Randy

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