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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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charging system - stumpted

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jeg

11-19-2005 08:01:32




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I am hoping you can help me. When my tactor is running I check the voltage at the battery and at the "A" on the generator - it only shows battery voltage ( no charging ). If I gound the "F" on the genrator she starts charging. If I ground the terminal on the VR it shows charge. Here is my problem. If I check continuity from the VR terminal to the body of the VR it shows it is continious ( cleaned the areas very well when I mounted the VR to make sure it has a good ground). If it shows continuity why does it require another ground to start charging?? Is the VR bad??

Thanks

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John T

11-19-2005 13:25:12




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 Re: charging system - stumpted in reply to jeg, 11-19-2005 08:01:32  
Jeg, I dont completely understand what youre saying, but will try n help.

First, its the BAT terminal on the VR thats connected to the ammeter to charge the battery. The ARM/GEN terminal on the VR wires to the gennys Armature post, and thats the gennys output.

The way the VR works is that when the battery requires charging and when the gennys output voltage is higher then that of the battery, the internal cutout relay closes so the genny can get to n charge the battery and WHEN THAT HAPPENS the battery voltage (BAT on VR) and the gennys Armature should be near the same voltage, less minor voltage drops, as shes connected via the closed cutout relay inside the VR. Then when the tractors shut off (gennys voltage less then battery voltage) the cutout relay must open, otherwise the battery would discharge through the genny.

When the genny is working and the battery requires charging, the VR's cutout relay should close and the battery voltage should rise from 12.6 to 13 volts and over. The battery just sitting there ought to read 12.6 volts.

If shes charging and the battery is good n capable of accepting a charge, the voltage should rise as stated above and/or the lights glow noticeably brighter from idle to wide open and the ammeter will show a + charge. Is yours doing all that????? Is your battery staying up or you need to charge it now n then????

You asked about a second ground: The VR must be grounded cuz it supplies the ground for the gennys Field. The Gennys Field is supposed to ground via and through the VR's internal field control relay(s) NOT by you grounding it yourself!! Sooooo ooooo if shes NOT ever charging even with a low battery (VR's cutout relay closing and battery voltage rising) but she will charge if you dead ground the gennys Field post, the problems EITHER the VR is bad,,,,, ,or the VR isnt well grounded,,,,, ,,or the wires open from the VR's FLD terminal to the Gennys Field post.

NOTE: If the battery is staying up she may be okay!!! The VR's field control relay isnt always calling for high/full charge such as you get when you manually dead ground the gennys Field post you know. Right after starting when the battery is weak the VR should call for high charge (ammeter will swing to high charge reading) but after some time it will be in the low charge mode and shouldnt keep full charge to prevent overcharging the battery.

So, I guess the question is does the battery stay up?? If so dont tinker with things just yet, but if the battery runs down and its voltage never rises above 12.6, but it will and she will charge ONLY IF you manually dead ground the Field, then sounds like you have a poor VR ground or a bad VR or a misisng wire from the gennys Field post to the VR's Field terminal.

Clear???

Let us all know, good luck n God Bless

John T

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jeg

11-19-2005 14:41:25




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 Re: charging system - stumpted in reply to John T, 11-19-2005 13:25:12  
I think I should be embarrased. The battery is new . So that being the case could it be that the generator is just not beign"asked" to charge? I was told that with the tractor running I should be reading 13.5V. I can only get that ( or more) if I short the "F". I have just rebulit this tractor and it has not run 30 minutes yet so the battery has not had a chance to go dead. This thing has an idiot light which does go off as soon as you get it off very low idle.

Could it be that I am creating a problem that is not there?

Thanks for you input. PS - I am a fellow Hoosier -live in a small town - Rosedale.

Thanks again

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John T

11-19-2005 18:26:28




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 Re: charging system - stumpted in reply to jeg, 11-19-2005 14:41:25  
I wouldnt worry too much just yet unless the battery dont stay up. I take it you have an idiot light but no ammeter?? Its true the battery voltage ought to rise IFFFFF F shes charging and usually after a start it ought to be on full charge for a while at least. Depending on the battery condition and genny, at low RPM the VR's cutout relay may drop out in which case the battery voltage will be 12.6, but once RPM is cranked up the gennys voltage ought to rise n close the relay whereby the battery voltage should rise to 13 and over.

Just use her n see if the battery stays up I guess, but right after a start if the genny and VR are working I would expect the VR to be at full charge and the battery voltage certainly over 12.6 for a while at least. As I posted earlier, if she NEVER charged unless the gennys field were dead grounded there may be a problem, but not being there I cant say much other then that for now.

Hang on youre getting there

John T

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jeg

11-20-2005 13:23:45




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 Re: charging system - stumpted in reply to John T, 11-19-2005 18:26:28  
I appreciate your courteous response. I think I "ll take your advise and just see what happens. You are correct about the idiot light.

Curious, I noticed you answer alot of the electrical problems - where did you learn all that???

Thanks



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Dellbertt

11-19-2005 12:21:18




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 Re: charging system - stumpted in reply to jeg, 11-19-2005 08:01:32  
Allen hit it. If the battery is full charged the vr will not called for juice unless you override with gnd. If your bat is low charge then yes, the ground test is indicating a bad vr.



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Allan in NE

11-19-2005 10:26:54




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 Re: charging system - stumpted in reply to jeg, 11-19-2005 08:01:32  
Jeg,

Are you saying that the battery is going dead? If so, yes the regulator is at fault.

But, a generator system only shows charge at the ammeter while it is replenishing the battery or the electrical system is pulling a load.

If the battery is pretty well charged up, it will show "0" or just a little to the right of "0".

Hope I understand you,

Allan



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