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What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at???????????

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BIG JOHN

12-06-2005 12:40:56




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Seems as though somebody (me) forgot to put any conditioner in the fuel tank on the 986. Haven't tried to use it but I think I am already in trouble. 5 above here this morning. Tractor is in the shed (no heat).




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T_Bone

12-07-2005 02:58:46




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 12-06-2005 12:40:56  
Hi John,

My Mom's MF jelled at 10º one year sitting outside. I bought a can of Power Service 911 and that ungelled the fuel in about 24hrs along with some heat, maybe 50º barn temps. I did have to change the fuel filter tho as the wax was too thick on the filter.

You can also buy Power Service (white bottle) that's anti-gel just about any Wal-Mart or Truckstop that will keep #2 from gelling. Less expensive than 911. PS911 is supposed to be for already gelled diesel.

I too have used 10%gasoline with #2 and never had a gell problem.

Since we live outside of Phoenix we don't get winter diesel here so I use PSwb when I heading to the cold country in my PSD.

T_Bone

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Bus Driver

12-06-2005 16:16:59




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 12-06-2005 12:40:56  
The jelling occurs when paraffin flakes form. This starts at about 20 deg and additional types of paraffin gel as the temp gets lower. It becomes a problem when enough flakes have formed to impede fuel flow. That will vary with many variables involved. Mercedes and Volkswagen for many years recommended adding gasoline to prevent fuel flow stoppage, up to 30% gasoline in some cases. I have personally used 10% gasoline in other engines with no problems of any sort. When my two-cycle weedeater/chainsaw mix gets a little old, I just put it in the tank of my Diesel tractor.

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Aces

12-06-2005 15:44:35




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 12-06-2005 12:40:56  
Big John My brother bought a 1086 in 1978 had over 8000 hrs on it in 1996 never had #1 fuel in it never had problem with it. But the 4010 he got so he would not have to use the 10 in cold weather, would jell so he used the 10 anyway.



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Hugh MacKay

12-06-2005 13:56:30




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 12-06-2005 12:40:56  
John: I don't think there is a set temperature. Items like humidity and wind chill will affect this somewhat. You are in the marginal zone, I've seen them give trouble at 10F, and other times not at -10F. In your situation I'd go with straight methyl hydrate, let sit for about 20 min, then circulate fuel with the hand priming pump on top of injection pump, before trying to start the tractor.



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IaGary

12-06-2005 12:53:58




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 12-06-2005 12:40:56  
Been there done that. You better warm fuel with space heater or warm up feul somehow and get conditioner in it before you start it. Every one around here was caught off guard also -10 monday.After it gets mixed in and maybe a little #1 added to tank you should be alright. Good luck.



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Tim...Ok

12-06-2005 14:00:04




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to IaGary, 12-06-2005 12:53:58  
My Cummins froze up once,it was about 1 outside..but I was going down the highway,so add in windchill to that and it was pretty cold..learned a lesson on that deal,3 days to get it thawed out.

Tim



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Wayne Swenson

12-06-2005 21:15:32




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to Tim...Ok, 12-06-2005 14:00:04  
Just for the record; windchill only affects living flesh, not metal, plastic or liquids.
Those inanimate items just cool off faster with the wind blowing on them.
PS: don"t put your tongue on any metal item to see how cold it is!
Living in Montana, North Dakota, & Minnesota for 6o+ years has given me some "cool" experiences to remember.



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Hugh MacKay

12-07-2005 05:27:15




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to Wayne Swenson, 12-06-2005 21:15:32  
Wayne: I believe I spent too many years parking vehicles out of the wind, to completely believe you.



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gene bender

12-07-2005 05:35:00




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-07-2005 05:27:15  
Sorry HUGH buy WAYNE is correct



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Hugh MacKay

12-07-2005 07:04:09




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to gene bender, 12-07-2005 05:35:00  
gene: Are you guys telling me we spent 35 years parking forestry machines, miles from any civilization or electricity and out of the wind for no useful purpose. I can tell you from those years of experience, out of the wind in a grove of trees was number one. Second if you could also find a spot out of wind, where sun hit at sun up that was also a factor, not a big factor as guys wanted them warmed up and ready to go at sunrise. You kept oil leaks on diesels non existant,in case machine didn't turn over well, then out came the cast iron fry pan full of charcoal, and placed 6" under the oil pan. Believe me that one didn't work well in the wind either.

I am quite fond of barbequeing with my gas barbeque year around, on my front deck. Works well even down to 0 degrees F. It damn well don't work in the wind. I believe you folks need a bit more proof. Oh, one more thing, flesh tending the cooking refuses at temps below 0 degrees F, wind or no wind.

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Tim...Ok

12-07-2005 03:48:02




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to Wayne Swenson, 12-06-2005 21:15:32  
If those thinks cool off faster with wind blowing on them,wouldn't that be REAL similiar to wind chill..same effect anyway..just curious


Tim



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Brent in IA

12-07-2005 04:01:56




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to Tim...Ok, 12-07-2005 03:48:02  
Nope. Wind chill on non-living objects may make them cool faster, but they cannot "feel" like they are colder than the actual air temperature. If a warm engine cools to 10 degrees it is always only 10 degrees no matter how hard the wind blows. However if a person goes outside without a hat, and the temperature is 10 with a strong wind, their skin never drops colder than 10 degrees but they FEEL like it is because the wind is continually removing heat from their body faster than if there was no wind.

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EricB

12-07-2005 06:14:26




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to Brent in IA, 12-07-2005 04:01:56  
Of course you forget! Once your body gets to 10 degrees it won't chill off anymore either.

Trouble is, you have to get someone else to take the temperature!



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Dick Davis

12-07-2005 04:51:06




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to Brent in IA, 12-07-2005 04:01:56  
Way to go Brent and Wayne! So often we see the term misapplied. Wind Chill is a specific scientific term that is tested and defined. Not fair to use it where it doesn't apply. My nickel Dick Davis



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T_Bone

12-07-2005 04:46:50




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 Re: What Temp does #2 Diesel Jell at??????????? in reply to Brent in IA, 12-07-2005 04:01:56  
Hi Tim,

And this can be explained by the first Law of Thermodynamics that states"

"Hest flows from a higher temperature to a lower tempertaure"

So a tractor at 10º steel temps with abiment temps at 10º, has zero BTU to give up.

A body at 98.6º in 10º abiment temps will give up 98.6-10=88.6º of heat to loose. As the skin has 10º air move accross, it will cause the moisture of the skin to evaporate quicker thus cause an additional cooling effect named windchill.

T_Bone

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