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DrEvil Question?

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Geno

12-27-2005 15:26:52




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With The Help Of Pat From Wisc. I Was Able To Get The Serial # Of 20999J For My Friends Super H With A Missing Tag. It Has Some 54 Castings That End In Z And Some 53 That End In Y. Can You Tell What Month It Was Produced? With This # It Is A 53, But It Is A Stage 2. Thanks For Your Help




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Pat H

12-27-2005 19:37:07




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 Re: DrEvil Question? in reply to Geno, 12-27-2005 15:26:52  
the serial given is the right one. Super H's serial number 20840 thru 21528 have a difference of 2767 between chassis and motor serial numbers. I have been researching this for quite a few years now and have an excel spreadsheet set up to trend the difference between chassis and motor #'s. CNKS - give me your super H serial number and I'll see how close I can get figuring out your motor number. Geno's was easy as it fell in a range of 9 tractors known to me. Pat in Wisc

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CNKS

12-28-2005 05:30:53




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 Re: DrEvil Question? in reply to Pat H, 12-27-2005 19:37:07  
Chassis serial 20594, engine serial 23360 or a difference of 2766, the 3 (engine) is misstamped, it is possible that it is a 9, but the 3 better fits what you said. So, can you explain the Z castings on his SH?-one or two could have been replaced, but if there are several, it is not likely. Fiscal year vs production year doesn't matter on the castings.



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Pat H

12-28-2005 15:26:11




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 Re: DrEvil Question? in reply to CNKS, 12-28-2005 05:30:53  
an engine change is a possibility. The serial number given is approx 1200 tractors away from the start of the "new" model year. I can't tell you when the "Z" casting codes would have first appeared. I have # 24655 and it has some "Y" castings as does #25691. The serial given to Geno would however be the "right" one for the motor number given.Pat in Wisc



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CNKS

12-28-2005 17:18:16




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 Re: DrEvil Question? in reply to Pat H, 12-28-2005 15:26:11  
It might be the right one for the tractor that the engine came on, but not the right one for the tractor it is in now -- the Z castings were not cast until Jan 1954, thus unless there are only 1 or 2 replacement castings, he does not have a 1953 Super H, he has a 1954 with a 1953 engine. Therefore the serial number, although correct by your calculations is not the correct one for his tractor. I hate to see the wrong serial put on a tractor -- that tractor could still be around 100 or more years from now, at a time when no one was alive when it was built, just adding to the confusion.

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Pat H

12-28-2005 18:09:25




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 Re: DrEvil Question? in reply to CNKS, 12-28-2005 17:18:16  
Are you certain the foundry didn't retool to the "Z" code until January of '54? I agree that the castings were probably stockpiled and not used immediately as cast, as evidenced by two of my SH's but I'm not certain when the retooling would have been done.If you divide the 29000 or so super H's made in approx a 24 month period you come out with about 1200 tractors a month. 20999 is pretty close to 1200 away from the start of the 54 season. Give it some thought. Pat

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CNKS

12-28-2005 20:12:48




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 Re: DrEvil Question? in reply to Pat H, 12-28-2005 18:09:25  
The castings are supposed to have the exact calendar date that they were cast, i.e. 1*2*Z means Jan 2, 1954. So you cannot have a 1953 tractor with a 1954 casting from the factory. Geno's friend's tractor is not a 1953 if it has the original castings. Y castings on a 1954 tractor, yes; Z castings on a 1953 tractor, no. Castings on the tractors I have cover a period of at least two months, likely 3. According to Guy Fay, there were 21916 SH's built in 1953, that's 1826/month assuming equal production, putting 20999 in mid-December 1954, but it still should not have Z castings. And, the last 1953 serial was 22201, coincidentally 1202 away from 20299. All this assumes that the people doing the castings knew what month and year it was. I suppose someone could have messed up, I have no idea what IH's controls were.

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CNKS

12-28-2005 06:46:40




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 Re: DrEvil Question? in reply to CNKS, 12-28-2005 05:30:53  
Looks like an engine out of an older SH.



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CNKS

12-27-2005 17:33:59




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 Re: DrEvil Question? in reply to Geno, 12-27-2005 15:26:52  
If this was posted earlier, I missed the details. But, if the tag is missing there is no way to get an exact serial number. Close, maybe, but there may be another SH with that number. If the serial numbers go by the calendar year (there is some question about that), you cannot have a 53 serial with 54 castings. If the numbers follow IH's fiscal year, you can have 54 serial with 53 castings. Far as I know there is currently no way to determine the build date from casting numbers. Castings usually sat around for days, weeks, or months before being used. Guy Fay, Ken Updike, Jim Becker, possibly others may know where to look in the Wisconsin Historical Archives for that information, as build dates have been traced to serial numbers -- but, you have to have the right serial. However if you are SURE it is in a certain range, you "may" be able to determine the month. That said, Stage 2's were built in Oct, Nov, and Dec, of 1953, not sure about the Oct part, just an estimate. Your hangup is the Z castings.

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