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Copper Battery Terminals

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Jay (ND)

01-06-2006 08:27:21




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I need to replace the battery cables on all three of my tractors (M C H) and was wondering if these are worth it, or if I should stick with the heavy guage conventional cables?

From Farm Show magazine:

"They have 10 times more conductivity than commonly-used lead terminals, the leading cause of battery failures," says Don Fleming, president of DF Sales.

Fleming feels many farmers mistakenly blame battery failure on the battery itself when the problem is with the connecting cables. "Most batteries are hooked up using conventional copper cables with bolt-on terminals made of lead affixed to each end. Lead has a conductivity of only 8 to 10%, compared to 97% for copper." To get batteries hooked up with virtually no loss in conductivity, DF Sales has introduced crimp-type connecting terminals, constructed of copper with a corrosion resistant-plating, for making your own highly-efficient battery cables.

"We think our new copper terminals are, by far, the best choice available for hooking up batteries. The connections are copper to copper so there are no dissimilar metals involved to cause resistance or to create corrosion. We also have developed an exclusive teflon-coated heat-shrink sleeve which seals cables and connectors against battery gas, moisture, oil and anything else that can cause corrosion."

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KEB

01-06-2006 19:26:02




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
I agree, pure unadulterated snake oil. First off, the conductivity of metal is not measured as a percentage of anything. I have no idea what "conductivity of 97%" means, and I'm an electrical engineer. Conductivity is measured in units called "mho-cm^-1". (mho is ohm spelled backwards, as conductivity is the inverse of resitivity, which is measured in ohm-cm)

In fact, according to my handy-dandy "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" book, the conductivity of copper at room temperature is approximately 13 times that of lead. HOWEVER, unless you are trying to pass current through a small cross section of material or over a long distance, the intrinsic properties of the material would have little to do with voltage drop.

In the case of a battery connector, there is so much lead that I suspect the total resistance through the connector is trivial compared to the resistance of the wire attached to it. The biggest single problem with battery terminals is corrosion inside the crimp.

Finally, the dissimilar metal part is also nonsense. You either have a lead to copper interface where a conventional terminal connects to the wire, or you have a lead to copper interface where a copper terminal connects to the battery post.

Keith

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willie j

01-06-2006 18:49:21




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
Sounds like snake oil to me. It is definitely NOT a copper to copper connection. Quite sure the battery internal parts contain a lot of lead and absolutely no copper. Also what is this "anti-corrosion" plating on the terminals? Doesn't that eliminate the "copper to copper" theory? Crimp terminals may or may not be better than bol;t on, soldered connections definitely are best.
I have been wrong before.
Willie J

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Bus Driver

01-06-2006 16:15:20




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
One more thought is that solder is made from lead with additives, such as tin. But joining copper terminals to copper cable with solder uses Lead! That said, I have soldered many of them. The fellow selling copper terminals is a bit like the workman who has only a hammer- to him, everything looks like a nail.



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BillyinStoughton

01-06-2006 15:03:49




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
Bus Driver is right. Be sure to use corrosion inhibitor whenever you clean your cable connections. You can use an inhibitor specific for batteries, but I've also seen guys use a blast from the paint can with equal results. I think the most important thing here is actually that in a proper functioning system, battery acid SHOULD NOT be present (i.e. battery secured, quality cables, tight connections, NO over-charging conditions, etc.) Good luck!

Show me the sun in Southern Wisconsin!

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Bus Driver

01-06-2006 13:54:11




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
The battery acid will corrode the copper faster than it will the lead. But the copper will slightly improve conductivity for a while. Surprisingly enough, battery acid quickly destroys some grades of stainless steel.



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BillyinStoughton

01-06-2006 10:35:07




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
I can"t vouch for the conductivity of lead, but I will stand behind the statement that copper to copper (cable to terminal) makes for a better connection since like metals are being used. I build all my own battery cables for my tractors and have always used copper terminals. I typically use 1 gauge cable and instead of crimping (and deforming the terminal lug), I solder the copper terminal directly onto the cable. This makes for a 100% positive connection. And since the terminal is filled with solder and not just crimped, it is impossible to get moisture into the connection. Add a little bit of battery cable shrink tube to the equation and you will have the last set of cables that tractor will ever need.

I go to the welding supply house for the cable, and my CNH boys for the copper terminals. Rosin core electrical solder works best for the connections and doesn"t require mass amounts of heat. Put the terminal in a vise, insert your cable, and then slowly heat it with a propane torch. Fill the terminal full of solder. As you heat the terminal the copper cable will come up to temperature too. As that happens you will actually see the solder start to creep back up the cable. It"s the best water tight connection that can be made! It"ll cost you about $50 to make a set, but it"s the cats *ss for both 6V and 12V systems.

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El Toro

01-06-2006 10:19:11




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
I think what Paul suggested was the best idea and I have made them that way for over 50 years and the Army still uses them that way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that's why the Brooklyn Bridge has been sold sold so many times.
It's a money making scheme. Hal



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Nebraska Cowman

01-06-2006 09:35:40




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
Nice theory but in the real world any leakage of battery acid is going to eat those nice little terminals like candy.



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P Backus

01-06-2006 09:23:31




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
The best terminals I"ve seen I can get at my local Carquest or Napa auto parts store. They are cast brass with a lead-looking plating. They get soldered on, which I think is better than crimping on. The lug end is copper. I"m making some now like that with 2/0 cable. i think those will be some pretty nice cables.It sounds to me like that ad is hyping it so they can charge a lot more $. I"m sure that they work fine, but I doubt that they are as wonderful as they say. If the copper is really what, 87% more conductive than lead, then your starter motor should spin 87% faster, right? It"s a wonder anybody ever got anything started before Don Fleming came along.
Still, it is important to have GOOD battery cables.
Paul

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Johnski

01-06-2006 09:12:05




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Jay (ND), 01-06-2006 08:27:21  
"We think our new copper terminals are, by far, the best choice available for hooking up batteries. The connections are copper to copper so there are no dissimilar metals involved to cause resistance or to create corrosion. We also have developed an exclusive teflon-coated heat-shrink sleeve which seals cables and connectors against battery gas, moisture, oil and anything else that can cause corrosion."

Nice idea but think about what you are connecting the cables to. Lead battery terminals connected to lead plates in the battery. If they are so inefficient then why have lead terminals been around for ever? I agree that the bolt on type repair terminals are not that good though. You can either get good solder-on or crimp-on terminals or buy pre-made cables and be just fine. JMHO Jf

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Jay (ND)

01-06-2006 09:21:00




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 Re: Copper Battery Terminals in reply to Johnski, 01-06-2006 09:12:05  
That was my thinking as well John. Just looking to see what everyone else thought. Thank you.



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