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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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2 way hydraulics for Super M??

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Jeff Jackson

01-10-2006 16:53:06




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I have a 53 Super M with the live hydraulic pump but not the additional resevoir or "Christmas tree". I recently bought a loader for it that had come off of an "M" and it came with a single spool valve and hoses for trailing 2 way hydraulics. My question is how to connect the pressure and return hoses of the lever to my live pump. Would I just "T" off of the existing hoses going to the belly pump? I've been told there is a pressure relief inside the belly pump and by "ting" off the existing lines I would bypass the relief valve and damage the pump. Are there any diagrams available to help someone hydraulic challenged like me??? Thanks in advance to any and all help!

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captaink

01-11-2006 06:19:15




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-10-2006 16:53:06  
Here is a picture of my M, your super should be similar. Mine has a reservoir where the belly pump used to be that I use when the loader is off. My DuAll loader has a tank in the left upright leg, (second picture) that I have the suction line connected to when the loader is on the tractor. Hope this helps!

third party image

third party image

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Andrew Okey

01-11-2006 11:00:42




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to captaink, 01-11-2006 06:19:15  
Is that a air horn on that M? LOL
AJO



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captaink

01-11-2006 11:04:28




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Andrew Okey, 01-11-2006 11:00:42  
I wish, might be easer to get my wife痴 attention :o] !

Seriously, my dad put it on there many moos (moons?) ago when he used to bring in the cows for milking on his way home from the field. I知 not sure what it is from, most likely something pre-WWII I知 guessing.



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Jeff Jackson

01-10-2006 17:46:31




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-10-2006 16:53:06  
Is there a way to connect without using the belly pump control rod? I have a loader on the tractor and I use the rod to raise and lower the loader. I would like to be able to use the 2 way hydraulics without removing the loader.



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Nat 2

01-11-2006 04:58:09




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-10-2006 17:46:31  
You've got a live distributor-drive pump, AND a belly pump, right?

Okay, in the olden days, it was common for people to upgrade their early Supers with live pumps, and use the old belly pump as the reservoir.

The intake for the live pump would draw its oil from the bottom of the belly pump reservoir, pump it through the valves and lines, then dump it back into the fill port on top of the belly pump.

I believe you have to drill and tap the bottom of the belly pump reservoir for the intake.

Your other option is to completely eliminate the belly pump altogether and use a separate tank. Northern, among others, sells all-steel hydraulic reservoirs in many shapes and sizes.

Remember, the belly pump reservoir can only hold a few quarts of oil, and it's going to get REALLY hot with much loader use. 3-5 gallons in a separate reservoir will stay much cooler, AND you won't run the pump dry and shear the keyway on the timing gear.

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Jeff Jackson

01-11-2006 10:15:29




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Nat 2, 01-11-2006 04:58:09  
Nat, you are correct in that I have both the distrubutor drive pump AND a belly pump. The way it is plumbed now, one line, which I believe is the pressure line, is plumbed into the bottom of the belly pump facing forward and the other line is plumbed into the rear of the belly pump. It appears that the pump has already been drilled and tapped as you mentioned. If I use a seperate reservoir, do I completely bypass the belly pump? The single spool control valve that I have appears to have a pressure relief built into it but I don't know what it is set at. I was told it previously came off of a "M" so I guess I could assume that it is set properly? Forgive my ignorance in this matter but I'd rather ask a bunch of questions and get it right the first time. Thanks to everyone for their help.

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Steven@AZ

01-10-2006 18:11:40




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-10-2006 17:46:31  
You could plumb in with a tee off the pressure from the pump... just be sure to plumb in another relief valve to protect the pump. I believe 1200 psi is the max those distributor pumps can handle safely.



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Jeff Jackson

01-10-2006 18:24:28




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Steven@AZ, 01-10-2006 18:11:40  
Sounds like this is the way I need to go. Where would be a good source for a pressure relief valve that would be suitable for this application?



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Wardner

01-10-2006 21:00:03




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-10-2006 18:24:28  
Most, if not all, aftermarket spool valves have a relief valve built into the body. I think they are all adjustable as well. Normally they are covered with a cap that has a hexagonal shape for wrenching. When the built-in relief valve opens, excess pressure is dumped into the outlet of the valve. That will have the same pressure as the reservoir which is near zero.

I would not plumb in an extra relief valve. It just makes for a sloppy installation plus it is an added expense. MOreover it has to be installed between the pump and spool valve and require high pressure hoses and fittings.

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Steven@AZ

01-10-2006 18:38:17




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-10-2006 18:24:28  
If you have a local hydraulic supply company, I would try with them.

If not, here is one that will work from Northern Tool. Prince adjustable relief valve for $30.

I would set it to the minimum adjustment of 1000 psi and call it good.

FWIW The live hydraulic pumps on M thru 450 were around 12 gallon per minute at 1200 psi max if you need the specs.

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Jeff Jackson

01-10-2006 19:22:24




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Steven@AZ, 01-10-2006 18:38:17  
A million thanks Steven!!! The relief valve is ordered and should be here in a few days. I knew what I wanted to do with the plumbing....just wasn't sure on the correct way to do it. I've gotten by with single acting hydraulics but the 2 way will be sooooo much nicer! This forum and ALL of the participants are awesome!



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Steven@AZ

01-10-2006 17:29:19




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 Re: 2 way hydraulics for Super M?? in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-10-2006 16:53:06  
For pressure to the INLET of your spool valve, come off the pressure port that is currently on your Super M.

For return from the OUTLET of your spool valve, tee into the fill hole for your current reservoir.



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