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Setting Valves

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Donny

03-23-2006 01:13:34




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Setting valves today on my 826 and had some problems. The sequence I am going by is in the book for number 1 piston tdc and piston number 6 tdc (both being on compression). My question is all the rest of my numbers (valves) are just find but number 3 is down when it should be up (the valve). Is there any otherway to setting valves or not? If anybody has a book please look at it so you can see what I am talking about. I have the book but no way of showing you guys. firing order is 1 5 3 6 2 4 going from the front of the engine right? I tryed it both ways still no luck? Can you guys please help? Thanks Donny

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the tractor vet

03-23-2006 07:12:22




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to Donny, 03-23-2006 01:13:34  
The correct valve setting on a 358 cu. in diesel is with #1 on TDC valves on #1 intake and exhaust closed next you do both of them then skip over the next valve do the next one and the one next to it skip two do the next two so that translates to 1-2 -4-5 -8-9turn the engine over one turn to TDC again using the timming pointer in the bell housing and mark on the flywheel for this then you set 3-6-7-10-11-12 go back over it a second time just to make sure. the timming hole is located in the right hand side of the bell housing and the should be a removable timming pointer under the cover remove the cover and replace the cover bolts to hold the pointer inplace clean the flywheel off of all oil and greas and find the timming marks and use white paint to mark TDC use and long stiff screwdriver or flat tiped pry bar to turn the engine with and also keep the engine shutdown pulled to the shut down posision fuel off not sayen that it will start but it could and feed you a bar if it did stranger things have happened .

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the tractor vet

03-23-2006 07:24:21




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to the tractor vet, 03-23-2006 07:12:22  
Oh yea tappet gap is for the intake valve .010 and for the exhaust is .012 and like i said there is no margen for erro you screw up and on these engines it means a valve will get real friendly with a piston , SO if you are not sure of what you are doing then leave it to someone that knowes . and like the one guy sayen that just set one as one is going down well i am going to tell ya he may think that his engine is running good but if it is done the wright way he will get a couple more ponys out of it sure glad he was not the one doing valves when we were racing .

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Ron in Nebr

03-23-2006 21:15:07




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to the tractor vet, 03-23-2006 07:24:21  
TV- if I'm the guy you were referring to, no offense taken. Funny you should mention racing though, since I got that info from a guy in NC who builds 800+ hp dirt latemodel race engines for professional racers(and has tested every possible combo and adjustment on his dyno) and it's always worked quite well for me...and I've won a good number of DLM races myself as well as having spent a number of years working on engines professionally with ASE certification in engine performance and repair...

Granted, this experience was more in the automotive feild, and maybe the IH tractor engines have different cam phasing, but on most 4 cycle engines, if you set them the way I posted, the lifter for the valve you're adjusting WILL be on the base circle of the cam which is exactly where it HAS to be for an accurate setting. My post was intended only to simplify a process which could possibly be intimidating to the average old tractor owner. It's not inaccurate, it's just a faster way to do the same thing, developed and used by racers who check or set their valve lash once a week or more versus once every few years. Your method is every bit as accurate(and the way I used to do it as well). People are free to use whichever they're most comfortable with.

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Ron in Nebr

03-23-2006 07:07:36




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to Donny, 03-23-2006 01:13:34  
A quick and accurate way is, while turning the engine over by hand, set the intake clearance when the exhaust is just beginning to open and set the exhaust clearance when the intake is almost closed. Do the same on each cylinder. Works on any engine.

The post below about setting them with the engine running is incorrect- that only works with hydraulic lifters. How do you tell if you have hydraulic lifters?- If your manual gives a spec for valve lash, you don't have 'em.

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teddy52food

03-23-2006 07:04:45




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to Donny, 03-23-2006 01:13:34  
I agree with Jim Allen, except you will turn the engine over twice to get them all.



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the tractor vet

03-23-2006 06:45:46




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to Donny, 03-23-2006 01:13:34  
Off the top of my head this morning i can not remember on the 826 BUT ONE THING THAT I CASN TELL YA IS THAT YOU DO NOT EVEN THINK OF TRYEN TO MAKE A VALEVE SET WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING THAT IS WHY THERE IS A VALVE SETTING SEQ. So let me wake up a bit get my boots on and get out to the truck and get the book out .



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Bob

03-23-2006 06:13:25




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to Donny, 03-23-2006 01:13:34  
This is a chart for older units. Anyone know if valve arrangement is the same?

Link



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El Toro

03-23-2006 04:01:40




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to Donny, 03-23-2006 01:13:34  
You can adjust them with the engine running too.
I have a set of clips that go on some rocker arms
so the oil isn't squirting everywhere. Hal



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the tractor vet

03-23-2006 06:42:23




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to El Toro, 03-23-2006 04:01:40  
Hal , there is one thing that you NEVER DO ON A DIESEL and that is set valves with the engine running as the valve to piston clearance is guess what not there and when you add that littel old feeler gauge in there that just could put that valve that far INTO that piston that far if there is a valve setting seq. then that is what you fallow just like on the old hy po engines that had solid lifters . ANd since i am not all the way awake and on the first cup of coffee i am going to have to open the book on this one to see what valveset is .

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El Toro

03-23-2006 07:30:47




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to the tractor vet, 03-23-2006 06:42:23  
Thanks for the advice. Hal



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Jim Allen

03-23-2006 02:53:15




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to Donny, 03-23-2006 01:13:34  
Donny,

I haven't worked on a great many tractors but I've adjusted the valves on a bazillion cars and trucks. I have an 826 and recently adjusted the valves the way I outline below. I suspect you were out of sequence. so I would either double check yourself or use my method below. Anyway, there is another way to do it. I don't say its better than the way the book says, but I find it less confusing and I'm just plain used to it!

Go by the firing order. To make it easier to grasp the concept, on a scrap of paper, draw a circle. Put a big dot in the center. Equally spaced around that circle in a clockwise rotation, write down the firing order of the engine: 153624. Now draw lines connecting the cylinders in the firing order that are directly opposite: 1-6, 5-2, 3-4, making sure that line intersects the dot in the center. The cylinders opposite each other share the same piston position at any point in the engine rotation, but the valves are 180 degrees apart in the firing order.

Next, spin the engine around in clockwise rotation, watching the rocker arms until you find two rockers on any cylinder at the overlap point. Overlap is when one rocker is coming back up (exhaust valve closing) and the other is just starting down (intake opening). Move the engine until you find that center point between the one coming up and the other starting down.

Next, find the cylinder opposite the one on overlap and adjust the valves because that cylinder is on Top Dead Center and the ignition point where the engine would fire. The lifters are on the base circles of the cam.

Say you found #2 on overlap ... you would adjust the valves on #5. Now that you have found which cyinder is on TDC, you know that if you rotate the engine clockwise, #3 will be the next cylinder in the firing order to go to TDC and fire, so watch the rockers on #4 for the overlap point. When you reach it, adjust the vlave on #3. Continue around until you have adjusted the valves on all cylinders. You will make one full engine rotation from the point you started in 60 degree increments.

CAUTION: Always turn the engine in the normal rotation (clockwise for most) because some injection pumps can be ruined going backwards a substantial distance. I don't actually know if this is the case with the pump on the 826, hence my caution. I'd prefer not to put my injection shop tech's kids though college needlessly! Also, I made sure the engine kill rod was pulled out and secured that way so that it wouldn't accidentally start. It isn't likely, but I had it happen on a boat engine of mine while I was spinning it over to adjust the valves.

I won't argue with anyone whether this is easier or harder than the way in the manual. You turn the engine the same amount, but in shorter distances. I just find it easier to keep it all straight in my head .

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Donny

03-23-2006 07:44:04




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 Re: Setting Valves in reply to Jim Allen, 03-23-2006 02:53:15  
Thanks to everyone I will try that



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