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Very Strange Behavior

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Allan In NE

04-01-2006 04:15:39




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Mornin' All,

I've ran into this phenomenon on two old tractors now and you've all heard me cryin' and bellyachin' about the noise in the rearend of my 966.

Originally, the tractor had developed an o-ring leak, had antifreeze in the oil and the prior owner just parked her in a shed rather than spend the money to fix it. The thing sat there for 6 years before I bought it and "brought it out of retirement".

I've never been real happy with that rear end, 'cause you could hear it howlin' over in the next county. When I drove it home that first day, I could feel a speed related vibration in the floorboard too.

Anyway, last fall I plowed 10 acres with it, putzed around the place diggin' postholes and then just parked the silly thing for the winter. Wanted to get it in to the shop to have it opened up, but they didn't have time to get to it.

Kicker is, yesterday I popped it off, hooked up the plow and went to the field. Strange part is that the noise has drastically subsided; still there somewhat, but pretty much normal to my ear.

What the heck is going on? My 686 did the same thing with a low-side T/A howl after I put 'er back to work. With use, the noise cleared up.

I just don't get it. 'Spose the ol' gal had some rust on the gears 'er something?

Allan

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CNKS

04-01-2006 09:16:09




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Allan In NE, 04-01-2006 04:15:39  
As you run more and more of those tractors, cab or not, without hearing protection, you become deafer and can't hear all you did before, thus everything sounds better. I can barely hear myself typing, and tractors do not sound near as loud as they used to.



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Hugh MacKay

04-01-2006 11:58:35




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to CNKS, 04-01-2006 09:16:09  
CNKS: Not sure I agree, not 100% anyhow. My wife calls it selective hearing. She claims, if I want to hear it, I will hear every bit as well as I did almost 41 years ago when we were first married. If I don't want to hear it, you may as well be talking to the barn door post.



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Jimmy King

04-02-2006 00:19:16




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-01-2006 11:58:35  
Hugh, my Granddad used to go out the back door saying I don't hear a word you are saying.



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CNKS

04-01-2006 13:30:28




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-01-2006 11:58:35  
Not with my lack of hearing. When I was a kid, I would get off the tractor and my ears would be numb, would clear up in a few minutes and I would think nothing about it. The same tractors now are MUCH quieter, as are most things. I did start using hearing protection in the 80's, I believe, much too late. Now the things I needed hearing protection for then are so quiet, makes me think I don't need it anymore -- not true. I have also lost the selective portion, can't hear it whether I want to or not. Deafness has it's advantages and disadvantages.

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scotc

04-04-2006 21:30:29




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to CNKS, 04-01-2006 13:30:28  
Our CIH 4240 had a terrible whine coming from the turbo. I ground a half load of ear corn with it one night and with the echo caused by the gravity box, I came out not hearing a whole lot. My ears never really did come back around, I noticed things sounded different for a couple days. Now I wear earplugs in the truck and running the tractors, even when I mowed hay with the 400 last summer.



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Hugh MacKay

04-02-2006 03:11:22




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to CNKS, 04-01-2006 13:30:28  
CNKS: I believe hearing loss is to some degree genetic. I have had others tell me exactly what your saying both in their youth and as they got older. I still have very good hearing, although I do have ringing in my ears. I am told that ringing has been caused by years of engine noise.



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lee

04-01-2006 07:50:53




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Allan In NE, 04-01-2006 04:15:39  

It might be the lull before the storm or the eye of the storm presenting an illusion it's all over. Or maybe the storm is in fact over.
Nature has its ways. Time will tell. It'll all work out in the wash. If it doesn't work itself out maybe you'll get fed up and fix it or maybe it'll just break and then you'll have to fix it.



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Hugh MacKay

04-01-2006 06:12:14




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Allan In NE, 04-01-2006 04:15:39  
Allan: Normally we think of mechanical problems not healing, however I think your asumptions of rust on gears has some merrit. Tractors that are parked for extended periods have 80% or more of transmission and rear end working parts not submerged in oil. It only stands to reason condensation and rust will be a factor.

Take for example this Farmall 140 I have, parked in a heated warehouse for 10+ years. When I got the tractor the transmission driven pto would not engage. Today after 2 years of use it works fine, and the solution was nothing more than patience.

30 years ago I bought a 300 rear chassis, mainly to get an axle and some transmission parts. When I opened it up to harvest my parts, I thought I had wasted the few dollars I'd paid for this mass of internal rust. I cleaned it up and used the axle and complete top shaft in my 300. It was quiet and certainly much better than listening the the click of broken teeth and seeing that axle with close to a 1/4 twist in it. By the way, I know this 300 is still going, and probably has seen 10,000 hours since that part replacment.

I think patience is the order of the day when it comes to parked for awhile old iron. I do have one reservation with this statment, I don't think your 966 rear end and transmission are engineered as heavy in relation to the horse power as for example my 140, 300 or Mike's H.

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Allan In NE

04-01-2006 07:14:10




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-01-2006 06:12:14  
Mornin' Hugh,

I could hear that howl when I first started it and went out to the yard to hook up the plow. Then, after getting everything adjusted and ready, I had to take it on the road roughly 1/8" mile to get out to the field.

I remember thinking at the time, "Hey, the damned noise must have a sweet spot at this engine rpm, 'cause it isn't there now".

Nice part was, it never did show up the rest of the day. Heck, think I'll just work the old sow all summer and see how it shapes up by fall.

Maybe I'll sneak in under the wire on this one 'cause I really don't want the expense of opening that turkey up.

Dunno, we'll see.

Allan

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R. John Johnson

04-01-2006 05:57:34




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Allan In NE, 04-01-2006 04:15:39  
Allan

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. It's very possible some slight surface rust was on some teeth and is now gone. Saved you a bundle of money. Just think about changing fluid and filters so any rust particles don't circulate and wreck something else.

John



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Janicholson

04-01-2006 05:18:53




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Allan In NE, 04-01-2006 04:15:39  
Minor surface irregularities on pressure surfaces setup harmonic vibrations in drive components. When I was a Nissan mechanic, differentials were the main issue. 1 in 100 would have noticable whine that got transmitted into the car (mostly Z cars). In most cases with a change in fluid, and several months the noise would become less and less till gone. In my experience if it gets worse and worse it will break, if less and less it will usually "lap-in"
JimN

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workhorse

04-01-2006 05:09:29




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Allan In NE, 04-01-2006 04:15:39  
Ya, My hearing has diminished some this winter also.



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Michael Soldan

04-01-2006 04:53:12




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Allan In NE, 04-01-2006 04:15:39  
Hi Allen, my story is about an H that sat with a lot of water in the rear end for a lot of years. When I drove it on the highway I swear I heard whine,silence,whine,silence,whine silence...the rusted part of the gear that wasn't in the oil, at least thats what I think, anyway after changing the rear gear oil and using the tractor around the farm,I don't notice the sound anymore..maybe tractors are like us old guys after I'm up and going for a while I don't hear my knees creeking and my ankles and feet popping so Us all just got to get worked a bit.....Mike in Exeter Ontario

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Harley

04-01-2006 08:43:07




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 Re: Very Strange Behavior in reply to Michael Soldan, 04-01-2006 04:53:12  
Allan I had a semi tractor that way one time, and running the east coast every week, I didn't need it breaking down back there, so I started replacing parts in the front axle. Long story short I replaced almost $2000.00 worth of parts and never did find the noise. Learned right there and still use it to this day. Take all the necessary precautions that are visible, then run it. When it breaks, then you will know what to fix. Otherwise it can nickel and dime you to death. Harley

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