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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Re: We're ready to torch this 656. Help please!!!!

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george md

04-26-2006 22:19:59




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The fact that you can idle it down and it will continue to run eliminates both ignition and the pistons seizing in the bore . A piston that is seizing in the bore will stop the engine whether or not you push the throttle to idle and it will be some time before it cools and comes free . And as a machine shop owner the quality control on the newer parts is much better than it used to be , now measuring pistons and sleeve bores is a formallity rather than a necessity . I am a Clevite WD,Silvolite WD,and FM dealer.

That engine is starving for gas .

george

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the tractor vet

04-27-2006 08:07:07




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 Re: We're ready to torch this 656. Help please!!!! in reply to george md, 04-26-2006 22:19:59  
George , i don't care if you are a dealer forthem or not as i use to be a dealer the cast pistons are junk period the expanchion on them is unreal as i have been building tractor engines for along time and this problem started after they dropped the forged pistons and yes they will run at and ideal sometimes . Now if ya think i am kidding go build up any 6 cylinder gasser and just stuff the pistons in don't worry about clearance it and sizen it then go put it to work under full throttel and full load and we will just see how long it will run before it seezes up . the old zolnar pistons were forged and where what was in them from the factory and you could hog on them all day long and never seeze one this all started with the cheep cast one and don't set there and tell me that they are so great along with the new head gskts mat. just see what it takes to seal up a head on one now adays even if ya deck the block and mill the head with new head bolts copper coat or what have ya they seep from just tinny bubbels comming out between the new and improved material to coolant squarting out . We never had this problem with the OLD gskts with asbetous now how do i know all of this well because i have been around for a long time and i have seen these problems from the start . I had one 706 that i put three new differant head gskt on and had problem s tryen to seal and when i put a factory NOS asbestous head gskt on it stopped leaking And the last set of pistons that were NOS FORGED ZOLNAR FOR 291 did not seeze up while out plowen on a hot fall day in vary hard ground . And as far as not getting enough fuel well on the any of the gas carbs after the 560-660- they all have no adjustments to set the main jet as when the key is turned on the fuel shut off selinoid opens the main jet wide open now unless their is dirt blocking that jet or the total advance timming is to far ahead or the coil is junk or they have a manifold leak or they are running a 87 octain gas that has MTB or ethinhol the tractor should perform as per spec. I have seen with my owen eyes that a clevit CAST PISTON swell over .025 above the top ring and score all 6 holes with the worste being on 1 and 6 and this is on a hand fitted engine with .0035 skirt to wall clearance . and the brand new in the box Clevit CAST pistons ran up to .0075 from each other in one brand new kit shipped to my door from the warehouse . Now i have spent a bunch of money on tryen to solve this problem when if first started to happen with a lot of phone calls and LAB testing that does not come cheap and i learned that between the Cast piston and the JUNK fuel is where the problems lie. Around my area we still have a bunch of gassers on the frams that work everyday not a play toy but as a mainstay tractors that are run everyday and i have seen more then my fair share of problems with gas tractors . Now if everybody would just read the Operators books and READ THE SECTION ON FUEL REQUIRMENTS CLOSELY then a bunch of the problems will go away . You have to keep in mind that when the bulk of the 6 cylinder tractors were built that regular gas was of 95 octain so back then almost all the suppliers shipped to the farm 95 octain gas as REGULAR gas the only gas that i can remember of not being that hig was GULFTAIN AND SUNOCO 190 and that stuff would make a old junk 6 cylinder chevy knock and ping. Now here we are today with the price of gas getting sofar out of hand that we are all looking for a way to save what ever we can . I have spent a good many years specializen in I H tractor repair and on the tractors that i work on i know them inside and out and all there quarks so when i come on here and tryand help a guy out it is from my knolage and experance and there are times that i am wrong as i sure as heck am not perfect as i have had my screwups .

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george md

04-27-2006 22:44:22




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 Re: We're ready to torch this 656. Help please!!!! in reply to the tractor vet, 04-27-2006 08:07:07  
TV ,

I don't know where you got your idea that cast
pistons expand more than forged, but it is the other
way around . Cast expand between 1/3 and 1/2 as much
as forged and the new hyper eutectic ones expand
much less than plain cast pistons. For your info ,I have been building engines for
many years and we do most anything from a single
cylinder to a D-8 ,gas or diesel. I do tend to agree that some of the newer gaskets are not as good as the older ones ,I don't
care much for fel pro ( many of their sets are not complete ) I have better service out of victor , but sometimes FP is the only one that
has the set.

george

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MN Scott

04-27-2006 09:56:48




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 Re: We're ready to torch this 656. Help please!!!! in reply to the tractor vet, 04-27-2006 08:07:07  
I sure have to agree with you on the quality of the new head gaskets for these engines, THEY ARE JUNK. I gave up trying to get my 706 to seal up and just ran it. After 25 hours now it has almost stopped bubbling. It only has to make it about two more weeks when the cows go out on pasture and the hay feeding is done. Then the 706 is getting a one way ticket to the next consignment auction and I'am all diesel from now on except for the SH and SM.

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the tractor vet

04-27-2006 10:26:30




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 Re: We're ready to torch this 656. Help please!!!! in reply to MN Scott, 04-27-2006 09:56:48  
I have had to pull them down to over 100 ft.lbs hot to get them to stop and just crings while doing that on one it took 110ft.lbs of torque i was waiting to pull the thread out of the block or break a head bolt . I made several calls to Felpro on that fact that they would not seal and got all stors of excueses then i switched to Victor and there are two differant stiles of them one they ship to Case I H and the other to parts stores took some diggen to find this out. Just like FelPro have three differant gskt. for the 6 cylinder I H's one is there famious peratorque and it does not work at all then there is the metal copper one that leaks like a sive then they also have one that they only ship to Case I H now that one is not to bad but ya have to pull it down on the high side with clean thread chased holes and run a die over the threads on the bolts Plus wire brushing and darn near hand fitting each bolt to the hole plus luben them . Nothing worng with a 706 gasser once ya get it all figured out they will run a long time and they will start everyday no matter what the weather . in the winter the 706 of my buddy gets run every day for feeding the critters and now that it is well broke in even running the feed grinder as there is no sence in tryen to get the 1066 or 806 up and running just to grind a batch of feed once a week them two set in the shed till warmer weather comes back . Here in a bit i'll be head out to the farm and the chore for the day is drillen holes and fence building as it is a bit wet and IMPO to early to start corn planting as i just know you guys out west and up north are going to ship more COLD air down this way as the night time temps have been stayen down in the mid 30's and with costs don't need to replant Eugen is all fired up to get going and i am not we had hope to be starten by this weekend but maybe next so for now build fence and be done with that job while we can still drill holes with out barrowen that high tech hyd auger to go on the skidsteer .

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