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Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it work?

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River Bottom Fa

06-19-2006 18:35:02




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I recently sold Tom Windsor a stuck H engine complete with head when he was returning home from the RPRU.I had been soaking the cylinders off and on for a while on it and thought that this might work.I would leave the head on it and take the rocker shaft off and make sure all the valves are closed.Next I would pull the crank out and put the engine on an engine stand and set it right side up so the rods are hanging straight down.Now you need to put together an adaptor to fit into the sparkplug holes with a grease fitting on the end.You need to place something soft like a wadded up tarp or an old blanket under the block just in case a rod pops out under pressure.I would pump it full off grease one cylinder at a time and apply moderate pressure because Im not sure if this could damage the liners if they are salvagable.Essential this should work just like a press.Any pressure you put on top of the piston will be multiply by the square inch of surface on the piston.Is this a crazy idea or could this be a possble solution for a lot of stuck engines.P.S. I would use the cheapest grease available cause cylinders with the piston stuck on the bottom of the stroke will take alot of grease.Maybe filling the cylinder with oil first then pressurizing with grease next might be another solution.Im am interested in the responses this will get.Look forward to hearinf from all of you....River Bottom Farmer

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Richard Pope

06-21-2006 17:34:54




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
Instead of a grease gun, I use a pressure washer. Adapt the hose to the plug hole and give 'er a squirt. It might not be any good when it breaks loose, but it will break loose. Some guys use a hydraulic system to the same end, but water is not so messy.



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Rebuild it

06-20-2006 16:33:42




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
If you have to do that much work, why dont you just tear it apart and rebuild it, and be done with it.



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gene bender

06-20-2006 03:57:43




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
If the engine has a piston on top tdc just where do you think it can go? The only way you can move any piston is if it is not on the top or bottom of the throw. Just remove the head and remove the pistons then you can get the rings unstuck and cleaned up so when you are done you have a good engine. Just remember there is a reason that it is stuck.



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Nat 2

06-20-2006 05:43:32




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to gene bender, 06-20-2006 03:57:43  
gene, read the post again. He said he was going to REMOVE THE CRANK.

Where will the pistons go? They'll drop straight out the bottom on to the floor.



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Dan in Ore

06-20-2006 02:52:59




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
If you use that method, make sure the piston is not at bottom dead center or you will bend/break a crankshaft, rod or piston. Good luck.

Dan



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Nat 2

06-20-2006 05:44:25




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to Dan in Ore, 06-20-2006 02:52:59  
Dan, read the post again. He said he was going to REMOVE THE CRANK.

Nothing will get bent, unless it gets bent when it falls out on the floor.



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Ron in Nebr

06-19-2006 22:03:10




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
Never tried this, the thought just came to me after reading your post and thinkin' how much grease that'd use up..... but what if you took(or made your own) a spark plug adaptor like what's used for a compression guage, dumped some form of penetrating oil in the cylinders, then pressurized them with air? This is assuming of course that there's not a valve stuck open....If nothing else it'd maybe help force the oil down towards the rings....and probably make a huge mess if/when the piston popped loose!

As for cracking heads or blowing head gaskets, as long as you kept the air psi lower than what the cranking psi is at on a good engine, I doubt there'd be much chance for trouble there.

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Dan Bear Kelley

06-20-2006 16:40:08




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 Big difference between grease and compressed air in reply to Ron in Nebr, 06-19-2006 22:03:10  
I would be VERY hesitant to use compressed air. Once things popped loose, there is no telling the amount of force that will suddenly be loosed.
.
Grease does not compress, so the whole action of the piston in the cylinder would be controlled by the amount of force put on the grease by the gun. If you use a hand-operated grease gun, you should have a great deal of control. Go easy, though! You will have a huge mechanical advantage with a grease gun, enough to split a head. And of course, once the piston starts moving, you should be able to take it out the rest of the way by hand. Filling the cylinder with oil before hand sounds rather messy, but then again, so does a bunch of grease. The oil method should work. :-)

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John A.

06-19-2006 20:45:50




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
R.B.F., Just tear the engine down, Remove the fuel tank, get the head,pan and all assorted parts off. Determine which piston/pistons are really stuck. Next move the motor, outside pour DSL in each cylinder then, Just a small splash of gas. Now set the DSL on fire. The fire will expand the cylinder and break the rust so a hammer and 4x4 block should break loose the pistons fairly easly'.
This method will work, and helps you save the pistons, especially if they are what you want and want to save them. Without a lot of beating on the block assembly. Good Luck
John A.

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Brian Schmidt

06-19-2006 19:41:24




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
This is a good way to blow a head gasket or worse yet, crack the head. I wouldn't try it. If you go to all that work, you might as well pull the head. Another few bucks for a head gasket, no big deal. You will spend than in grease and time.

If it is stuck that bad, the least you should do is hone it. You may have to replace liners and or rings and pistons. If not, it will smoke like a banshee.

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Loyd in Texas

06-19-2006 19:10:12




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
Try this. It will work. Remove the head and head bolts. drop the oil pan and remove oil pump.
Find a 6 ton hydr. jack and the largest car chain you have. Wrap the chain around the motor and rails. Place a rounded 4x4 block in one piston and sit the jack on top. Place the chain over the jack and apply pressure keeping the jack and block centered over the piston. May take a try or two. Put your favorite rust breaker in all four clinder wells. Go by each day and put as much pressure on the jack as you can.
My first one took a week. The second two days. I reused the sleeves and put in new rings. Both are still running.

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Tom Windsor

06-19-2006 18:53:45




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
Welll..... I know the concept will work because I have done it on many other applications...but on a much smaller scale.

The problem is....this.

You cannot get the crank out

unless you are fortunate enough to have ALL of the rod ends pointing in such a way so that you can get a wrench on the bolts to get them out==and this is not probable. I have only been able to get two caps off and the mains of course AND you cannot drop it because the crank goes through an end plate that you cannot get off till you get the timing gear off, and you cannot get the timeing gear off the cam shaft..cause it is usually stuck too. If you could get the timing gear off without breaking it, then it is possible to cause the crank to drop and rotate so you can get to the other rod caps...

GOOD IDEA but difficult to apply.

Now, the engine I got from you, I have it torn down...soaked the cylinders in muratic acid for 2 days and got all the rust off above the pistions...I heated each of them up and then poured transmission fluid in them...going to wait a while and see what happens, heat them some more and have patience---we will see

TW

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River Bottom Farmer

06-19-2006 19:08:11




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to Tom Windsor, 06-19-2006 18:53:45  
Do you have any crows foot wrenches and a long wobble extension.I know the lock tabs would have to be bent flat to do this but there has to be a way.I took the pionion bearing race out of a Dana 60 this evening with a homemade slide hammer I built just for this job. And before I had always removed the ring and pinion to drive the race out from the rear just because I was told to by a manual or a service manager at the dealer.Wish you and I would have had a little more time to look that thing over I bet we could make it work.I have a hole lot of homemade wrenches and othet tools Ive built and sometimes it has save me alot of time and money....RBF

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tom Windsor

06-19-2006 21:20:31




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 19:08:11  
I been out there working on this block tonight. I took the caps off two outside rods and the main caps. I took the accessory cover off. Then I raised the crank with a bar and rotated it with two rods still hooked to it. Then I was able to get to the bolts and remove them. the Crank is out, the cam is out, the lifters are out, and 1 piston is out...3 are still soaking...I am going to do that for a while...then I am going to set it on fire as mentioned above!!! :-) Heat works wonders. This block is salvagable.

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BillWV

06-19-2006 18:43:19




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
Sounds like fun.

I've done it before to remove stuck pistons from automotive brake calipers. It does take a lot of grease.

Good luck,
Bill



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River Bottom Farmer

06-19-2006 18:57:44




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to BillWV, 06-19-2006 18:43:19  
Bill what part of West Virginia are you from.I moved up here to Ohio three days after graduating high school to look for work and have been here ever since.I am originally from Nicholas county.I was born and raised in a little town called Tioga, just afew miles from Webster county are you fimiliar with that area?River Bottom Farmer



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BillWV

06-19-2006 19:43:56




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:57:44  
Hah! My Dad was born and raised on Little Beaver. Just a stone's throw from Tioga. My A spent its first 50 years or so there after Grandad bought it new in 1947.

Some of us tell people we went to Tioga Tech for school.

I still live in Nicholas County.

Bill



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john *.?-!.* cub owner

06-19-2006 18:42:37




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to River Bottom Farmer, 06-19-2006 18:35:02  
I've thought aobut that myslef, but never had need to try it yet, but the hit-n-miss engine guys do that.



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River Bottom farmer

06-19-2006 18:53:04




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 Re: Stuck engine idea is this crazy or could it wo in reply to john *.?-!.* cub owner, 06-19-2006 18:42:37  
Well at least my brains aworkin,sometimes my mind will wander off like this and then some really good ideas will come to me,but I have to say my wandering mind has brought me some unneeded trouble in the form of bad ideas.Glad to see some of you guys think on the same wave length.I will give this a try on a stuck kohler k series I have before doing it to a tractor engine....RBF



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